Orlando History Makers Podcast

Orlando History Makers is a podcast that offers a unique and intimate glimpse into the lives and personalities of the city’s most influential leaders — past and present. Through candid conversations, we uncover the stories behind the people shaping Orlando’s culture, legacy and future.

Hosted by Commissioner Robert F. Stuart. 

One episode will be released each week. 

Episode 1 - Orlando Mayor Buddy Dyer

In this episode, Commissioner Stuart talks with Orlando Mayor Buddy Dyer as he shares his rise to leadership in Orlando and the issues and projects that make Orlando a vibrant and exciting city.

Listen to episode 1 now

Read the transcript:

Commissioner Robert Stuart:

Hi, this is Orlando City Commissioner Robert Stuart. Very soon I'll be retiring from my position after 20 years of service to the citizens of Orlando, but before I retire, I want to leave a gift of history. I've had the wonderful opportunity to interact with so many people that have had such an impact on our city and how it's grown and how it's developed. Please join me on this audio journey as we meet these very interesting and influential people.

Thank you for joining us today for joining us today for a new podcast. I'm calling it Orlando History Makers. I'm your host Orlando City Council member Robert Stuart and I'm honored to talk with some of Orlando's great leaders and learn what makes our city and community so exciting and vibrant. If you like this podcast or have ideas about how to keep this podcast going just reach out to us through this channel. In doing these podcasts, it's my intent to bring some great stories Orlando's history to life and to look at the impact of these events and the people and to create an interest in our very exciting history. Today, of all podcasts that I do, this may actually be my most difficult, Not because of my guest, but because rather, I've sat alongside Mayor Dyer for almost 20 years. So let me introduce my guests and my friend and Orlando's longest-serving mayor, Mayor Buddy Dyer.

Mayor Buddy Dyer:

         Thank you. Commissioner.

Commissioner Stuart:

Welcome. So before we begin let me share a little bit about mayor Dyer. He was born in Orlando but raised in Kissimmee, graduated from high school in Osceola County. graduated from Brown University, later became a Florida Gator by graduating from the University Florida Law School  He was elected to the Florida Senate in 1992, District 14, my brother's old district, and he served there for 10 years  Then 2003, when mayor Glenda Hood was selected for Secretary of State by Governor Jeb Bush, there was a special election and, mayor, you are elected for the first time as Orlando's mayor, serving ever since. Now there are plenty of accomplishments and plenty of details about Mayr Dyer all over the web, social media and what's happened in the last 20 years. I promise you he's made the news almost every day for the last 22 or 23 years so we're not gonna spend a lot of time talking about that except to say that Orlandomemory.org has a lot of information. So let's get into it today, So, Mayor Dyer, welcome again. It's a little known fact that your first attempt at public service was to run as a city commissioner in Kissimmee and you lost.

Mayor Dyer:

I was very fortunate to lose that race

Commissioner Stuart:

And let me speak for Orlando, Kissimmee's loss was our gain. I'm just thinking as I was reading through this you could have been the Mayor of Kissimmee.

Mayor Dyer:

Yeah I was very fortunate I lost that first race

Commissioner Stuart:

Now will you share a little bit about your early life here and how you really came to leadership in Orlando.

Mayor Dyer:

Yeah absolutely. So you mentioned that I was born in Orlando raised in Kissimmee. So I was born in old Orange Memorial Hospital and back in those days if you lived in Kissimmee you had two choices, come and be born in the hospital in Orlando or be born at home and fortunately my parents decided to come to Orlando which benefited me later in life because my Senate District contained the place I was born. And of course, City of Orlando does so I've always been able to say as I was campaigning I was born here.

Commissioner Stuart:

Well you always say that and it's great, because just as you explained you came to Orlando because that's where the hospital was and people didn't know Mayor Buddy, isn't he from Orlando? I go.”no no you grew up in Kissimmee but he was born here.”

Mayor Dyer:

That's right and if you think back that was pre Disney so Osceola County if you can imagine this was 12,000 total residents or 3,500 in Kissimmee and 1,500 probably in St. Cloud and then the rest in an unincorporated. There wasn't really no hospital I mean it was just really a cow town. Very rural, very Ag-oriented growing up. I knew one Hispanic kid one total thing about that in the population in Osceola is now a majority Hispanic so huge changes just like here in Orlando. I graduated from Osceola High School I played all sports when I was growing up baseball, football.

Commissioner Stuart:

You’re a pretty good second baseman/ I heard.

Mayor Dyer:

I was okay in baseball and pretty good in football too but believe it or not so I never we never made it into any state competitions in Osceola. I made it in one act play competition. We made it to the state level so a lot of people don't know that I was the one of the best young thespians in all of Osceola County but we had…

Commissioner Stuart:

I didn't know, that's great to know

Mayor Dyer:

We had a drama teacher that just inspired people so most of the people on our competition teams were football players. And we would go places and you would encounter those that you would expect to be on those teams and then you'd see our team and it's like,”oh yeah there's the Cowboys from Osceola.” The quarterback on our football team went to Princeton the year before I graduated. He was trying to get me to go to Princeton but I wanted to go to an Ivy League school and since he'd gone to Princeton I needed to look elsewhere and Brown was kind of a hot school at the time. So I chose to go there and it was enlightening eye opening we only had three TV channels you recall back then. Maybe you could get PBS because ABC, NBC, and CBS. So you didn't have the exposure to the world that our kids have today. So it was very enlightening for me to go to Brown and the population that they had there was some they had kids from every state in the country. They said they could fill the class with all valedictorians if they wanted but they didn't want to, they've got a very diverse class and I learned a lot that's interesting there. Yeah I played rugby I was on the Ivy League championship. John Kennedy played on our team, “John John” and so I've had an opportunity to party in high-end a sport at the Kennedy estate. Brian Moynihan, who's president Bank of America was our scrum half. So I had a good four years. I learned about snow. I'd never seen snow till I went to Brown. I came back I got a degree in civil engineering and I came back to Orlando and worked four years as an environmental civil engineer.

Commissioner Stuart:

And that's how you came to Orlando

Mayor Dyer:

That's how I came to Orlando initially. I could get into all of my engineering exploits but I'll save that for now and just say that I was able to save enough money to put myself through law school. So I went back and got my law degree at University of Florida and was editor-in-chief of the law review and clerked for a number of a couple of Florida firms and Atlanta firms during law school and came back to a firm here in Orlando. And I don't know how I had the intention but I thought that I probably wanted to at some point go into public office and part of it was when I went to Brown it was the most expensive school in the country for two of the four years that I was there but I ended up being able to go cheaper to Brown than I could have went to the University of Florida because of all the financial aid that I got they used to have basic equal opportunity grants and supplemental grants and scholarships go any so and I came out with virtually no debt I had $4,500 at 3% interest that I just stretched out and stretched out.

Commissioner Stuart:

You probably paid over 20 years.

Mayor Dyer:

Yeah. so I graduated from law school, came back to Orlando went to practice with a firm called Smith, McKinnon and Matthews, and two years in I looked at running for the state house against a guy named Bruce McEwen. Maybe some people remember him because he served probably 10 years in the legislature and it was a year that my wife and I became pregnant, my dad was dying of emphysema, and my law firm…we broke out and started a new firm and I thought this probably isn't the best year to also be running the public office. So I gave all the money I'd raised back and waited till the reapportionment year the population in Orlando had grown enough that they were going to go from two senators to three. So Rich Crotty and Tony Jennings were the senators in the area and they drew seats that would accommodate, them largely Republican seats, and put all the leftovers into a Democratic seat and I decided that looked like a good place to run I thought I was gonna end up being against Dick Batcher maybe Alzop Reddick and they both decided not to run. And two days before the Friday for end of qualifying, I was the only candidate in the race and then find people qualified on Friday and one of them was the Florida Ag Commissioner sister Candy Crawford who was then the fire marshal under Bill Gunter. So she immediately had all the Tallahassee money but I had I had the African-American ministers with me which was a good thing in that district and ultimately I prevailed won that seat and then served in the Senate for 10 years. I was the Democratic leader for three of those 10 years. At the end of that I ran for Attorney General, this would have been 2002, is tough year to be a Democrat and our model was as long as the top of our ticket which turned out to be Bill McBride. Didn't lose by more than 10. We'd win the race model was exactly right unfortunately McBride lost by 16 and we lost by two and a half to a guy you probably heard of, Charlie Christ yes so

Commissioner Stuart:

Then Republican

Mayor Dyer:

Then Republican. At that point Bob Graham was the US senator, senior US senator and he was considering running for president. He asked me if I would come be his general counsel in DC and that's what I was arranging to do while coaching flag football was between the election and Jeb Bush who had won reelection as governor appointed Glenda Hood, who was then our mayor to be Secretary of State and the city commission set a special election. She got appointed in December and they set the special election for the last Tuesday in January, so pretty quick yeah turn around, I remember that so there were seven people that were already in the race because Glenda had said that she wasn't gonna run for reelection and there's a year left on her term and everybody started telling me that I needed to think about running for mayor. And that was nowhere in my playbook I had never considered running for local any local office other than Kissimmee that time. So I got a call one morning, I guess it's a firefighters who always supported me in a union support and they said they weren't going to commit to anybody else until I decided whether I was gonna run. So,  I got a call from pastor Sam Green and he was at the time the pastor of the largest African-American church…

Commissioner Stuart:

St. Marks, I think right?

Mayor Dyer:

St. Mark, yeah, and he said our congregations just spent the last hour. This is about seven in the morning praying about whether you should run for mayor and we think you should. So when you get that kind of call it's kind of, okay maybe I should take this seriously, so I decided to had a family meeting and we decided we'd do it and I was fortunate I had pretty good name recognition. I'd represented 90% of the city in my Senate district so I won a run-off against Pete Barr and then I've been mayor ever since.

Commissioner Stuart:

Okay so there's so much has happened in your tenure as mayor and we can go through it and I have been honored to be able to sit next to you and be part of, we have the venues, the growth of the city, the expansion of the airport, the emphasis you've made on public safety, there are other significant events have shaped our city, like the Pulse Tragedy and there's much, much more. When you reflect back on more than 20 years, what do you remember most fondly?

Mayor Dyer:

Fondly, okay that's a qualification because there are a lot of things that I remember and some of them are fondly and others are not but I think how Orlando has become such a welcoming city, even in today's political world we remain a bastion that embraces diversity. And people know that they can be loved here for their true selves. So I would say, I remember our will think most fondly upon what our city is and what it represents and it was shown most after the Pulse because we were already that welcoming city you couldn't have conjured that up just that day we showed the world what we were.

Commissioner Stuart:

The other day, I asked this question to mayor Demmings. I said. “okay give me your top kind of two or three things that that you feel of has its lasting impact on Orlando.” And Mayor Demings went through his entire last campaign and just it's got nice stopped there about the eighth one I said, “okay that's enough Mayor.” Okay I'm looking for two or three that are really important to you so let's look what are the two or three kind of issues that you think when you look back and you think you're gonna look back 20 years from now that really helps shape our community

Mayor Dyer:

So I would say helping to create this culture that we have a partnership and collaboration because whatever was on his list of eight or ten things and the things that I'm gonna talk about as well are all because we've been able to work together the city and the county working with the business community and are not in it for profits to achieve things that we couldn't if we were siloed. And we sometimes take that for granted, what we're able to accomplish in Orlando because of the willingness to put partisanship aside and work together. I mean look at our city council. You wouldn't really know who the Republicans are versus who the Democrats are, and we all work together on the list of things. I think the community venues are certainly have to rise up as one of those things between and that I think fostered the collaborative nature that we had was the county and the city working together to put that funding together to build a performing arts center and the now Kia Center and in Camping World, that's certainly there at some point in the future. I think Sunrail is going to be something that everybody says oh thank goodness we have right now. It's there but it's got to be expanded so I wouldn't put it at the quite at the top yet but at some point it will have that type of status. Recognizing and supporting the arts, I mean think about what we've done your old community center that we turned into the one of the best places for a ballet to be housed. We're sitting here in my office looking out at the performing arts center but what we've done for the Philharmonic and utilizing the Plaza Live now so supporting the arts.

Commissioner Stuart:

In my conversation with Mayor Hood and you've made the same assumption and our same identification. I said. “What really is makes our city great?” And she goes, “Well it makes our city two things, there's a neighborhood say we deal with and our willingness to engage all the people and all the stakeholders and making a decision.” She said especially in the business community and to say what do y'all where do y'all want to go let's see if we can get there together and she felt like that was the key thing Mayor Frederick said the same thing and I think you three, as leaders, I think are really the example of saying what do we want to accomplish we kind of put our egos away on how do we get there.

Mayor Dyer:

And sometimes we take that for granted. But you got to work on that you know it doesn't just happen. You have to work and be willing to do that so there's sharing of the credit even when some people aren't deserving of the credit, you share the credit anyways. And then there's also being you know sharing the blame when things don't work exactly the way you think it should. And perseverance is another, perseverance because if you think of SunRail for example. we failed twice at the legislature right before we were able to get that done.

Commissioner Stuart:

Okay, so there's a lot of cool things that the mayor gets to do and I've told this story about you on several occasions about your April Fool's joke. And you have shared on almost every occasion that that you get more comments about your voice on the entering and exiting the Orlando International Airport, tell us about the April Fool's joke.

Mayor Dyer:

Okay, so I tell everybody, I've been doing this for 22 years. I've done a lot of things that I think are pretty important things like what we just discussed, but I get more notoriety and positive feedback about the voice at the airport than any single thing. And I was just in Ireland and we're at the Guinness brewery doing a tour. This guy comes over and says. “Your Buddy Dyer. I hear your voice at the airport all the time.” And I look at him and he's wearing a Magic jersey. But I get that everywhere so it's pretty notable other mayors have copied now, right. They have that up but it is what I get most is I know that I'm home when I come back and I hear your voice on the tram. So a couple April Fool's ago, staff came up with this. It wasn't my idea. We recorded me doing that but we told everybody on social media that the audio had gone down on all of the trams at the airport. So I was coming out there to personally use a megaphone and do the welcoming stuff. And then we had recorded me doing that and put that up on social media. So I would say good 30 to 40 percent of the people thought I was really at the airport doing that including my son, Drew,  who when I was telling that same story to somebody in his presence said, “You weren't out there. I was going somewhere Dad, and I was looking to see which terminal you were at. So it was probably the best April Fool's prank that we've done.

Commissioner Stuart:

I think it's good I tell the story and I give you more credit that you stood actually on the tram and you were greeting the people on the tram which is…

Mayor Dyer:

We had done, we had taped that so there was video of me doing that, yeah.

Commissioner Stuart:

People laughed about it so I thought it was great. Okay, so, we've talked about what is important to you and that I think is important. And it, like I said, has been honored just to sit next to you for so long. Are there a couple of kind of “behind the curtain glimpses” of things that you'd like to share about how, or about what our community has been involved in? I know that we had such a long time challenge in the Arts Center. So it starts with Frederick and gets through with Hood. I shouldn't be so bold. With Mayor Frederick and Mayor Hood. And then it really comes to reality with you. But when it comes to reality, there's been a lot of stuff that kind of led to our community's acceptance of moving forward on this.

Mayor Dyer:

Well, I think one of the most important things that we did was put all three of those projects together. So having the Performing Arts Center, the Amway Center (the Kia Center), and Citrus Bowl. As a package made it easier to actually easier. It seems harder to do all three, but once you had all three, you had and said we're not breaking these apart. You had the supporters of the individual different pieces that were supporting each other. And there were some of the county commissioners. when we were getting the TDT vote that probably only wanted to vote for one of the three. But by having the other two as part of it, they helped out with the process for all three of them together.

Commissioner Stuart:

Orlando has a pretty colorful leaders in the past. I've told stories about Mayor Langford and told stories about, as I was told by Randall James, about him stealing the Presidential Seal during an event when he was here. Randall used to tell me that story and we would laugh and laugh about it. What are some colorful characters that come to mind, characters that I think people ought to kind of know a little bit about and know about our history?

Mayor Dyer:

Certainly Bob Snow, if we're describing colorful, comes to mind. The creator of Church Street Station and at one point it was the third or fourth most visited tourist attraction in all the Florida.

Commissioner Stuart:

And it was the beginning, really, of Disney Village. I mean, people came here and Disney went, oh, we think we can do this down here. And they did. And people put kind of coming downtown for that part.

Mayor Dyer:

Yeah. And it's heyday. They bus people. Yeah, there'd be dozens of buses sitting around over off under the under I-4, the nickel beer night to the night at Nichols at Church Street Station and then Nichols Alley. It was another one later on when the disco stuff was in. Certainly he was a character.

I don't know necessarily a character, but a friend and somebody that's been important has been Jim Pugh.

Commissioner Stuart:

Yeah, I was just thinking that.

Mayor Dyer:

Jim has had supported me in a variety of endeavors from the Senate to my AG campaign to the mayor's campaign. He never, ever asked for anything. And I had campaigned on doing the performing arts center. Nobody else of the seven were campaigning on that. So the night before the election, he was in the campaign office and he said, “Hey, I'd like to help you. On the performing arts center, we let me do that.” “Of course, I'll let you do that.” So I didn't have to wrangle him in to do it. He was certainly well, ready, willing and able to do that. And without Jim, we probably wouldn't have been able to get that done.

Commissioner Stuart:

I know Jim has been special to me as well, but I think Jim's one of those kind of characters that when people look back over Orlando's history,

Mayor Dyer:

Has had his hands in hundreds of things and all of them been positive to progress our community and has never jumped out and wanted all the credit. He just wants to see things get done, which is which has been a really neat because I think it's a core of those people in our community that love our community want to get it done.

Commissioner Stuart:

Yeah, I would agree with that.

Mayor Dyer:

And another colorful person, come to think of it, is John Morgan. But Morgan, although he is in the highlight in terms of promoting his firm, the philanthropic stuff that he does, he rarely takes credit for. Absolutely. He does a lot of stuff that people don't realize, like Second Harvest, Harbor House, those types of things.

Commissioner Stuart:

OK, now, legacy is an interesting word. I know you you're now looking at the end of your last term in a few years and you I think what's happened is, I have the privilege of being sitting next to the living legacy of what you've done with our city. When you think of this, what are some thoughts and guiding words that you would give to the kind of the next generation of leaders?

Mayor Dyer:

I always tell school groups that whatever you're working on, make it your priority and do the very best that you can do with that. Because when you do that, you don't know who's going to watch you have seen you doing what you did, whether it's sweeping the floor or something more important than that, obviously, that opens the next door for you because of how you have performed at the task that's at hand. So that's one piece of advice. And then I've always been one to think you need to learn about something before you render your opinion on it. So that's two ears, one mouth. Yeah. Thing. So I need to listen.

Commissioner Stuart:

And by the way, let me just interject that. That's what drives me crazy about you, because I want sometimes I want you to I want you to come unglued. And you are so patient and I have learned so much sitting next to you for that purpose. And I think candidly, I've said this on many occasions that really kind of comes out of your legislative background and that where you're listening for where the common ideas are.

Mayor Dyer:

And you know, you're not going to agree on all the issues, but you have that. I've never been in that position until I served here. I've always been in a position of leading and when you get into a legislative committee, you got to figure out how to collaborative. Yeah, yeah. Autocratic.

Commissioner Stuart:

Yeah. And I think you brought that to the city, which has been great stuff. And I appreciate that. So if you want to know more about Mayor Dyer, about his leadership or maybe some of the things that he has accomplished and things we've accomplished together, you can learn more at OrlandoMemory.org or visit Orlando's own website, Orlando.gov. Or, maybe just go there and look at how his experiences have influenced our community. And I appreciate that. So seriously, I'm so grateful to even share the deals with you. So thank you very much.

Mayor Dyer:

Thank you, Robert.

Commissioner Stuart:

Thank you.

Mayor Dyer:

This was fun.

Commissioner Stuart:

Mayor Dyer, you have done so much. Our entire community would not be what it is without you today. And 22 years of leadership now and I'll tease because oftentimes you would say I'm the long I'm the longest serving mayor. And the answer is, yeah, you were. But you weren't the most elected until the last election because somebody got elected six times.

Mayor Dyer:

Well, they had one year term.

Commissioner Stuart:

The one year term. So now you're both the most elected and the longest serving, which is which is combined. So I appreciate you doing that. I want to thank our listeners for taking a few moments of their time today and the first of our eight podcasts.

Please listen to some great discussions with our past mayors, our community leaders and those who have shaped Orlando. That's it for episode one. Please look for discussions with our history makers on this podcast channel. I'm your host, Orlando City Commissioner Robert Stuart. And I appreciate you listening. Let's remember to value our past, learn from it and make our future even brighter than ever. Thank you.

Episode 2 - Orange County Mayor Jerry Demings

In this episode, Commissioner Stuart talks with former Orlando Police Chief and Orange County Mayor Jerry Demings about his rise to leadership in Central Florida and his early life in Orlando.

Listen to episode 2 now

Read the transcript:

Commissioner Robert Stuart:

Hi, this is Orlando City Commissioner Robert Stuart. Very soon I'll be retiring from my position after 20 years of service to the citizens of Orlando, but before I retire, I want to leave a gift of history. I've had the wonderful opportunity to interact with so many people that have had such an impact on our city and how it's grown and how it's developed. Please join me on this audio journey as we meet these very interesting and influential people.

Commissioner Stuart:

Thank you for joining us again today with Orlando history makers. I'm your host Orlando City Council member Robert Stuart asking for just a few minutes of your time as we learn what makes our city and community so exciting and vibrant. It's my intent to bring some of the great stories of Orlando's history to life to look at the impact of these events and the people and to create an interest in our very exciting history.

Commissioner Stuart:

Once again today we have one of my favorite people and a dedicated public servant Orange County Mayor Jerry Demings. There's much I can say about my friend Jerry Mayor Demings. I apologize but if allow me just a few minutes. I may call you Jerry every now and then if it's okay. Mayor Demings is from Orlando's west side a product of Orlando, has served as a police officer for the city of Orlando eventually become Orlando's first black police chief, then public safety director for Orange County, elected twice as sheriff of Orange County (elected three times three times sorry as sheriff of Orange County), and then elected twice as Mayor of Orange County. That's a lot of dedicated public service. Mayor thank you for joining me today and to top it off you've become a best-selling author with your new book entitled “Believe, Faith and Truth and the Courage to Lead.” Mayor how do you sleep?

Mayor Jerry Demings:

(Laughs) Well, at night. 

Commissioner Stuart:

Before we begin, you're a native of Orlando just a few years younger than me take a few minutes and share about your life growing up in Orlando. 

Mayor Demings:

Well, I am really the first generation of my family to have been born and raised here within Orlando. My mother and father moved here from other places. My father was born in Alabama, in southern Alabama in Crenshaw County in the city of Luverne and ultimately he came here at 17 years old to start a new life in 1939. He met my mom and they got married in 1944. My mother was from North Florida from Gaston County in a small rural tobacco growing community called Havana Florida. 

Commissioner Stuart:

I know what that is. My mom was born in Greenville and raised in Madison. 

Mayor Demings:

Okay, I know the area well and so that couple had five children and I'm the youngest of the five but by just minutes because I have an older twin brother. My twin brother is about 30 minutes older than I am. His name is Terry, I'm Jerry and we had three older siblings. We had an older sister, an older brother and then a second sister as well and two of my siblings have gone on with glory. But there are three of us left and so I grew up in West Orlando to two blue-collar workers who gave us a lot of encouragement to get a good education, And then that would be the leveler for us to be able to become whatever we chose to become. 

Commissioner Stuart:

Now you went to Jones High School? 

Mayor Demings:

I'm a Jones High School Fighting Tiger Graduate. 

Commissioner Stuart:

I'm an Edgewater Eagle and I cannot believe that. 

Mayor Demings:

Yes, so I still wear my last ring to this day from Jones High School. I've graduated from a number of other institutions at this point but that was my foundation and I will never forget that foundation. I was very active in high school and sports and 

Commissioner Stuart:

What did you play?

Mayor Demings:

I played football, basketball, ran track and even played soccer at Jones High School for a couple of years, But I was involved in the future physicians of America Club at Jones High School. I was involved in student government. I was elected the vice president of my class and we were members of the Honor Society and that set the stage really for me, the education that I got at Jones High School and really from Orange County Public Schools. I went to Memorial Junior High School and to Richmond High Elementary School and ultimately went to Florida State University and graduated. 

Commissioner Stuart:

I know, I know…

Mayor Demings:

I had to bring it up.

Commissioner Stuart:

And you rub it in all the time with me. 

Mayor Demings:

Yes sir and so you know I was fortunate. My twin brother and I were roommates in college. I got my associate's degree from Florida State University. I got a bachelor's in finance from Florida State University. Graduated in 1980 from Florida State and moved back to Orlando. Took a job as an accountant working in the private sector for about a year but I always had an interest in law enforcement. While in college I was heavily recruited by many of the federal agencies to become a federal agent. They were looking for people with degrees in finance and accounting to do white collar types of investigations.

When I applied to the FBI. They went into a hiring freeze. I pursued other federal law enforcement jobs but in 1980 there was a hiring freeze. So I went to work as an accountant to help take care of my family and went to the Orlando Police Department. Obviously I got hired, intended to only stay one year and I ended up staying 21 years with the Orlando Police Department and held every rank. Went from police officer patrolling the streets of Orlando to various other ranks, senior positions. I was commander of the special teams, the SWAT and the hostage negotiation and emergency response teams all reported to me. I was deputy chief of investigations when I got appointed as chief of police in Orlando in 1998. 

Commissioner Stuart:

We got to know each other which you may not remember. 

Mayor Demings:

When I stopped you on the side of the road? 

Commissioner Stuart:

Yeah he did and I was a little bit upset about that?! There was a shooting over at the entry, I'm trying to think of the building but the one at Orange Avenue. And our church got involved with you and we became a hub for the families to come to our church and then our church provided resources and food for the guys especially the first responders and through a guy named Tommy Deal. So Tommy was a chaplain at the time. That's how you and I got to know each other and then come later on we actually have to be friends which is drives me crazy. 

Mayor Demings:

Yeah I was involved in my career numerous barricaded gunman hostage situations, shootings, other crises within the Orlando Police Department and the City of Orlando. I should say and that kind of set me up to lead the agency you know. 

Commissioner Stuart:

Yeah perfect. 

Mayor Demings:

In 1998 when I was appointed Chief of Police I was appointed by Glenda Hood. Glenda  Hood, the only woman to have served as mayor of the city of Orlando. At this point, here we are in 2025 and she appointed me as chief of police. I was 39 years old at the time and here we are now pushing towards 67 years old and what a joy it was to be able to serve my community and serve my police department and that set the stage for where I am today. 

Commissioner Stuart:

I know it made your mom proud. 

Mayor Demings:

Yeah my mom was alive she was able to see me sworn in as the 34th Orlando chief of police you know the rest of the story. My wife served as the 36th Orlando chief of police. 

Commissioner Stuart:

I know. 

Mayor Demings:

That's another historical fact. 

Commissioner Stuart:

Yeah, I was in office when she got it and it was it was wonderful, it was a great joy to work with your wife. But that's I went from getting elected in 2005 and so she comes in and 2007 I think. 

Mayor Demings:

That's correct as chief of police she was appointed the first and only woman so far to have served as Chief of Police in Orlando in 2007. She retired after 27 years with the City of Orlando Police Department in 2011 and went on to run for Congress. Obviously she eventually was elected and served in the United States House of Representatives for three terms and during the period that I was the 28th elected sheriff she was the 36th appointed chief of police in Orlando the only such couple in America where the two top cops were married to each other and the only couple in America where each of us has served as chief of police of a major city. 

Commissioner Stuart:

You're the only person I've ever known who've actually been written up by the National Enquirer. 

Mayor Demings:

Yes. 

Commissioner Stuart:

So I don't want to let you know that I don't know many people have done that but they wrote a pretty good article about you guys being top cops. 

Mayor Demings:

Yes and that article came out in January of 2009 and it was on page 59 of the National Enquirer when friends of ours said you won't believe it the two of you are in the National Enquirer. And the headline was something like the dynamic duo crime fighting duo of Val and Jerry Demings. So initially we thought it was going to be you know one of those types of very critical articles. 

Commissioner Stuart:

Or you met an alien of some sort. 

Mayor Demings:

Yes and you know the scandalous articles is what the National Enquirer is best known for but it was actually a good article it was complimentary of our mutual law enforcement careers and that was one of many national articles that was written over the decades about our community service and yeah so what a humbling experience it was. 

Commissioner Stuart:

All right well some people as we've mentioned before you have a twin brother you're the youngest of the twins. I have a twin sister, I'm the youngest of the twins when people ask me in the rank of our family I tell them, “I'm tied with fourth,” but actually technically the fifth. But your family plays a really important role in your legacy. Take a moment just share some thoughts that what you expressed in your book about the role of family and the faith and what that means in terms of your impact in community life. 

Mayor Demings:

My parents were both born in 1922, Dad lived until 2023 so he was about 101 years old. My mom died in 2017, she was died just prior to turning 96 years of age. But those two blue collar workers came from a Jim Crow era in which laws really did not favor them. Mom made certain that we went to church, that Terry and I were involved in the Boy Scouts, and I'll kind of explain why my mom was so focused on us getting an education and getting involved in a positive environments. My oldest siblings, my oldest sister was the first in our family to go to college and she went to a historically black college and University in Knoxville Tennessee. She graduated with a degree in accounting and business. went on to graduate school. My second oldest sibling, my brother graduated from high school got in trouble with the law left and went to New Jersey, came back found himself addicted to heroin in 1967 or 1968, lived a better part of the remainder of his life addicted to some substance. There's some time in jail and prison, but mom, because he was 10 years older than Terry and I, my mother wanted to make certain that we didn't make the same mistakes that my brother made. My brother was academically a great student but got caught up in a movement of protests and other things and unfortunately when he went to Newark, New Jersey. He wasn't prepared for a big city with a lot of drugs and just took control of his life. So he died at the age of 50. But my oldest sister, when Terry and I came along and went to college, she would she had graduated from college, she was 11 years older and she helped us financially. She got a good job, she went to work for Southern Bell at that time, the telephone company, and she was a yellow page salesperson. She made a good living and she was able to help us out my other sister, Sandra. She was nine years older than us and she graduated from college at graduated from high school at 18, went to nursing school got a became a licensed practical nurse spent a full career in nursing. She married a Vietnam veteran, he went to the Postal Service after he got out of the military, they lived a comfortable life in Rochester, New York, moved back to Orlando. And then there was just Terry and I. Terry's a businessman here, now successful businessman, ironically he majored in criminology in school at Florida State University.

Commissioner Stuart:

And you did not. 

Mayor Demings:

And I did not. I majored it in business and I ended up spending most of my career in law enforcement about 37 plus years of my now 44 plus year career was spent in law enforcement. But being of service, mom taught us to the fear God but to also have faith. She taught us to believe in God, go to church, raise our families, take care of them, to be honest, to have humility, to walk humbly and not brag about whatever accomplishments you have. So she taught us, that she taught us, to believe in ourselves and, so hence the title of my book is, “Believe, Faith, Truth and the Courage to Lead.” Mom taught us to believe in ourselves, and believe in God and that has stuck with me throughout my professional career and that's what we have taught our children now and we're teaching our children's children. We have five grandchildren, four girls one boy.

Commissioner Stuart:

Exactly the same with mine. 

Commissioner Stuart:

They're all here so it is great number five I'm number five only by hair. And you got five grandchildren for one I got five grandchildren four and one. Yes and it's... my family it's grown up very similar in that they came from a rural area mom was born in 1924 moved here at 22 and my mom married a guy who was 19 years older than her. The whole story behind that and I just thought, this is not my interview, but there's some things and, in terms of faith and belief and the desire to have your kids have a better life than you it just came out of that kind of generation. And when I read through your book is that same kind of commitment to making sure that there was a better life for you, but it had to come, not because of what you gain but because of how you felt about yourself. And what you can gain personally in terms of belief and faith anyway, I'm not gonna bore you all that. 

Mayor Demings:

You're precisely right. It was discipline, my parents believed in discipline. But they believed that you could dream big, as well, and they taught us to reach for the stars. I got to wear four stars as chief of police and as sheriff my wife got to wear four stars. Her background very similar to mine, two blue collar parents, she grew up in Jacksonville, we met in the 80s and got married and raised our family here and so you know the history is still being written. But that background that we have, you know of years of being the my grandparents were born in the 1890s and I never got to know my grandfather's they both had died by the time I was born in the late 50s, but I got to know both of my grandmother's. One was born in 1894 the other born in 1896 and, so my great grandparents were born in the 1860s just after the Emancipation Proclamation was signed. But my great great grandparents were enslaved and so throughout the years I had opportunity to sit with my grandmothers. While they were born free, it was so close to being enslaved just hearing the history lessons that they talked about. I was like a sponge as a kid I soaked up what they said and what it was like for them to live and one of my grandmothers she died in 1998, just before I was appointed chief of police, and because she was born at the end of one century, she lived completely through another and she was almost about a year and a half away from living into the third century.

Commissioner Stuart:

So cool. How cool is that? Yes that's so cool. My great grandfather was a the police chief in Moultrie. Georgia. 

Mayor Demings:

Oh wow 

Commissioner Stuart:

So it is the stories, that we were told he ended up dying as a gunshot wound. And what occurred was he his gun fell on the ground discharged and hit him and eventually he passed away as a result of it, But we have it that that connection and that kind of rural south area. And but I think something comes out of that area that says we want to make a better life. Okay, we're gonna jump along because I appreciate your time so much has happened since you've been in public service gone from Orlando's gone from a sleepy town to really a world-class leader, the growth of downtown, the creation of the venues, the growth of the convention center, the International Airport, just a few. When you reflect on your time, 30, 40 years of service to here, what do you remember most fondly?

Mayor Demings:

I have different fond memories but one that stands out during my tenure as a police officer with Orlando I had the opportunity to meet Rosa Parks.

Commissioner Stuart:

Oh that's cool 

Mayor Demings:

She was aged at the time but of course we all know the history of Rosa Parks in the Civil Rights Movement. And I had the opportunity to meet many of the Civil Rights legends over time. I've had the opportunity to meet Kings and Queens, presidents of the United States going back to Gerald Ford. I've had the opportunity to have one-on-one conversations with every one of them about various things and some to this day if they are in this area they will call me.

Commissioner Stuart:

Thats so cool.

Mayor Demings:

And one of the coolest things I remember is when my dad was about a hundred years old, he was on a long-term care facility, and former president Bill Clinton was in town. And his travel assistant contacted my office and the former president asked if I was available to meet him for dinner. I had a busy schedule that day and by the time we got back to him his plans had shifted slightly. But I was visiting with my father in a long-term care facility and Bill Clinton called me on the phone and I told him I said. “Listen, I'm sitting here with my dad visiting my father, he's in a long-term care facility.”He said. “Put him on the phone.” So here's my dad, at a hundred years old, I put him on the phone with Bill Clinton and Bill Clinton spoke to my father like he had known him forever. And it was kind of surreal to sit there and say dad you know you just talked to the former president of the United States. And he was his mental faculties were still pretty good so he was able to comprehend what he had just experienced. And so it's those types of things in my career that had I not been in the various positions I'm in now that would never have happened. I was mayor of Orange County when I got that particular phone call from Bill Clinton, so my father lived long enough to see me sworn in as police chief sheriff, and mayor, and mom lived long enough to see me sworn in as police chief, and sheriff. And for our family, what a legacy that we created for these two blue collar workers from the south to be able to see their children really reach the point where they were able to realize their dreams for their children, for their five children, and that is one of the things I think one of the most humbling experiences I've had is that we paid it forward. We honor our parents, we paid it forward by working hard and they got to see it.

Commissioner Stuart:

That's so cool. Yeah okay so let's talk about some projects around Central Florida. What are the ones someone's you've been involved in that that you're the most proud of?

Mayor Demings:

There are many but one I will talk about since I've been mayor, we have created Orange County's first locally controlled housing trust fund to help stimulate the building of affordable and workforce housing in our community. Right now, of course, we've lived through a global pandemic and housing affordability is a challenge the residents of Orange County. By referendum last year approved a measure that now requires in perpetuity for Orange County to have a housing trust fund. Whatever board of County Commission will be serving at the time gets to choose whether or not they can afford it financially but we made a commitment during my tenure to commit a hundred and sixty million dollars over ten years to stimulate the building of affordable housing within our community, and that addresses a 30,000 unit deficit of housing affordable housing units. When I came into office and when I leave office next year in December 2026 we will have closed that gap hopefully to the point where we no longer have a deficit. So that's a legacy project that we have here. We have committed to work with the City of Orlando to expanding Camping World Stadium with a 400 million dollar commitment, to doing upgrades with the technology at the Kia Center, whether NBA Orlando Magic plays to the tune of about 226 million dollars. We will be expanding the Orange County Convention Center with an investment of 560 million dollars. That project will not be completed until I have left office but we set the stage to ensure that our Convention Center remains competitive after my tenure. Then we have created the opportunity for improvements in our education system. We are investing dollars through Career Source of Central Florida, investing dollars with the Orange County Public Schools ensure that our children can continue to have access to a quality education. We moved the needle with health care services we brought on Dr. Pino, who was the Health Services Director for the Florida State Health Department at Orange County, who now works for us. He's the former director of Orange County's Health Services Department. Now where we have primary care access network clinics around the county. And we are investing in prevention related services for the mentally ill for those who suffer with different substance disorders. We are closing the gap we identified that we had a 49 million dollar annual gap in the continuum of services for those who suffer with mental illness and substance or behavioral disorders. We annually now or have increased Orange County's commitment by over 10 million dollars annually to close that gap we're dealing with the rising homelessness challenges that we have as a county we are contributing additional dollars. Now each year to address homelessness services we're mandated by the state to have a plan of action we were working on this before the state mandate came out. We're working in partnership with the City of Orlando, with other nonprofits around our community, to take care of the least of those within our community. We're not just creating the economic impact from tourism which today is a 92.5 billion dollar industry but we're also taking care of those who cannot take care of themselves. And, so that's a living legacy that we will leave behind. As we continue to have our central receiving center that law enforcement can take persons who need mental health treatment, who commit minor violations of law rather than take them to jail, they take them to get treatment. And by treatment we're able to make those individuals more healthy more self-reliant in a self-indulgent world to help take care of themselves. We've reduced the number of persons who are repeat offenders who come into our jail as a result of that. Annually we save tens of millions of dollars about leading with treatment as opposed to just dealing with it from a law enforcement and incarceration perspective/ We're investing money on the front end so we have numerous challenges transportation. I've been an advocate for a dedicated funding source to move the needle on a multi-modal transportation system to expand what we have now with SunRail, we've had ballot initiative, it has not passed but I remain focused on that trying to…

Commissioner Stuart:

Now wait a second I only ask for a couple, I didn't ask for...

Mayor Demings:

I go on all day 

Commissioner Stuart:

You need to lighten up a little bit 

Mayor Demings:

Hey, we are focused we get things done.

Commissioner Stuart:

Okay, well now that you said all that legacy is interesting word and I've had a chance to read your book and hear some of those words from you through the book. But you have this unique privilege, I like Jerry so I'm gonna say this, you get to be a living legacy. Because of what's occurred when you reflect around legacy and share some of those guiding words of thoughts what are your thoughts for the next generation of leaders

Mayor Demings:

The next generation of leaders will only be successful if we who are currently in leadership roles live help to lift them up. We, who are currently serving are standing on the shoulders of those civil rights giants and others who were before us. The group who are the next generation of leaders, who are behind us, just like we've been successful because we start stood on the shoulders of others, they can only be successful if we help them if they stand on our shoulders. And they understand that “they drink from wells they did not dig, they are able to get shade from trees they did not plant,” And as a result of that, I believe the future is bright our children are active in service to our community. I believe the most humbling thing that any human being can experience is if they commit themselves to a life of service. We just happen to be public servants, but people can serve others through different walks of life. And in spite of sometimes focusing on the differences between us, we should focus more on what we have in common and regardless of a person's ethnicity, gender, ethnic heritage, at the end of the day, we are more like than not. I believe that we live in the greatest country in the world that country that was founded on Christian principles has served our country well. You know that made us the United States of America one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all. It is that nation that makes us a great nation even though right now the geopolitical headwinds are divisive. A nation divided cannot survive and so I'm concerned about the future of our nation if we do not come back together, if we don't elect leaders, if we do not focus on where we can unify around common goals and issues. Is that kind of legacy that I hope to transfer to my children and transfer to other children. My children are all adults but they are very active and so it's a life of service that I hope that this next generation understands. It's not just about them, it's bigger than them, it's an opportunity to make the world a better place around them. And so I firmly believe that every one of us has an opportunity to participate in writing the narrative of what the future will hold if we believe, if we get involved in our community. So I would encourage the next generation, young adults, to find a way to find your passion but also never forget your responsibility to serve others. 

Commissioner Stuart:

Well, thank you. If you want to know more about Mayor Jerry Demings or his life here in Central Florida, take a moment to download his new book, Believe, Faith Truth and the Courage to Lead.” You can also hear more about Jerry's background in the oral history of myFloridaHistory.org, OrlandoMemory.org, both of those are available. And, Jerry, you even have your own Wikipedia page. So if you want to know the details you can go to his own page. I don't have one but there's a guy named Robert Stuart, but he happened to be a member of Parliament. He's got one but not me.

Mayor Demings:

By the way I didn't put up that Wikipedia page. 

Commissioner Stuart:

Oh yeah yeah 

Mayor Demings:

Some things on there, you don't believe.

Commissioner Stuart:

But I hope you get to know my friend Jerry and get inspired by his life here in Central Florida. Mayor Demings, thank you.

Mayor Demings:

Thank you.

Commissioner Stuart:

I'm so honored to have you sent a time with you and speak going to have behalf of our entire community, let me express my personal gratitude for your leadership our city and our entire community would not be what it is today without you, so thank you.

Mayor Demings:

Let me also thank you for your leadership, for having the courage to stand up and become an elected official. You've done a marvelous job for a couple of decades now and I know you're gonna be retiring and going to the next phase but “muchos gracias” and “merci beaucoup.”

Commissioner Stuart:

But I may have to actually go work for the county so say nice things about me. 

Mayor Demings:

Come on over here.

Commissioner Stuart:

I also want to thank our listeners for taking a few minutes out of your time with us today that's it for now please look for discussions with Orlando History Makers on this Podcast Channel. I'm your host, Orlando City Commissioner Robert Stuart and I appreciate you listening. Remember this, “Let's value our past, learn from it and make our future brighter than ever,” thank you.

Episode 3 - former Orlando Mayor Glenda Hood

In this episode, former Orlando Mayor Glenda Hood talks with Commissioner Stuart about her time as Orlando’s mayor and her commitment to help cities throughout Florida and the Nation.

Listen to episode 3 now

Read the transcript:

Orlando Commissioner Robert Stuart:

Thank you for joining us today with Orlando History Makers. I'm your host Orlando City Council member Robert Stuart asking for just a few minutes of your time as we learn what makes our city and our community so exciting and vibrant. It's my intent to bring some of the great stories of Orlando's history to life, to look at the impact of these events and the people and to create an interest in our very own exciting history. Today we are joined by another one of my favorite people, former mayor of Orlando, Glenda Hood. Mayor, thank you for joining us.

Former Orlando Mayor Glenda Hood:

Thank you. Glad to be with you. 

Commissioner Stuart:

There's so much I can say about introducing you. But let's start by the fact that you're my friend. And I'm grateful for that. Mayor Hood served as a 31st Mayor of Orlando. Prior to that, she was a volunteer chair of several committee committees, ran for city council and served there until she was first elected mayor in 1993. I think could be 92 or 93. 

Mayor Hood:

I think it was 92. 

Commissioner Stuart:

Okay. Maybe you got in on sworn in on that. 

Mayor Hood:

Yes, probably. 

Commissioner Stuart:

She was elected to serve as selected to serve as Florida's Secretary of State by Governor Jeb Bush in 2002. She also the Past President of Florida League of Cities, which I've had the honor of serving on the board there. And you have a wonderful reputation with them, as well as the Past President of the National League of Cities. She is committed to serving cities and public administration. There's so much more. But for details about Mayor Hood's accomplishments, there is plenty of information at the historycenter.org, as well as Orlandolandtrust.org, Orlando memory.org. Mayor Hood is a wonderful example of a life of public service. But that's enough for now. Thank you for joining us again. I appreciate it. Now before we begin, just share a few minutes about your early life and how you came into leadership in the city of Orlando. 

Mayor Hood:

Sure, I'm glad to. Well, I was born and raised in Orlando. My father had a retail store in downtown Orlando. So I spent a lot of time kind of growing up and getting to know the community, went to Cathedral School, which was right across from Lake Eola and Lake Eola Park was really our playground in so many ways. 

Commissioner Stuart:

Now St. James. 

Mayor Hood:

Well, no, actually, there's an office building where Cathedral School was, yes. St. James is on the other side of the lake.

Commissioner Stuart:

Okay.

Mayor Hood:

So this was on the south side of the lake. And so, you know, I can I have wonderful memories of going over to the then Albertson public library and the children's section was in the downstairs. So walking down those stairs to the basement and checking out all my favorite books or just walking around downtown and I grew up out on Big Lake Conway. So I would ride the bus with my grandmother into downtown on Saturdays and we'd go to the movies and go to the old Morrison's cafeteria and go to all the five and dime stores. So I loved Orlando and I loved the life of the city. So as I became an adult and came back to the community after college, I got involved in things I volunteered and got involved in the volunteer service bureau, the Junior League. I was asked to serve on the board of the Orlando Chamber of Commerce. And so a lot of activity and engagement that continued my learning process about the community. And then I was privileged to be a part of one of the first classes of leadership Orlando. And at the time, we had projects that we worked on and the project that I was assigned to do was city planning. And so I was fascinated by that the fact that cities actually plan how they're going to develop and grow over time.

Commissioner Stuart:

You don't think about that growing up.

Mayor Hood:

No, you don't think about that at all. And so I got to meet a lot of people in city government that way. And I learned that Orlando was really one of the first cities in the state to have a planning department. And then the county followed suit, not too long after that, I guess. So that was kind of how I got involved. And then by my volunteering, saying I wanted to learn more through different organizations and being involved in the business community. And I had a small business that I had created at the time, doing translation and interpretation work because I was fluent in Spanish. 

Commissioner Stuart:

You had a degree in Spanish?

Mayor Hood:

Yes. And so we were just starting to see an influx of Spanish speaking individuals come into our community. So people would ask me voluntarily to do some interpreting for them. And I thought, well, I'll form a little business around this. So that's kind of how I got started in the business area. And then I had a lot of people in the community come to me and say, “Why don't you run for city council?” And it seemed like a natural extension of community service to me, because you know, I wanted to make my community better and continue to give. And I thought serving on city council was a perfect way to do that. And so I kind of very naively stood up and said, I'm running for city council. And I did. And I was elected three times. 

Commissioner Stuart:

So that's great. Yeah, that's great. It's similar to my story is that if you're engaged in the community, it just seems to be a natural that you want to continue to serve. 

Mayor Hood:

Absolutely. Right. And, you know, it's a community when we are born and raised in a community, and we think we know it so well. But we really don't know a lot of the inner workings and the behind the scenes aspects of it and, and how everything comes together. So that really helped me.

Commissioner Stuart:

I was driving up today and I drove over I-4 and I was thinking about our conversation coming up and I kept thinking myself, there are people that will drive on this that had no idea how this got here. They just are using it. And, and there's people in our community that know how things occurred, how they got there and why that's important to really the growth of our community as well as, as, you know, all those things that make our community great.

Mayor Hood:

Right.

Commissioner Stuart:

But some people just they just jump into the community and they forget that somebody had to think of this, somebody had to put it together, somebody had to make it happen. 

Mayor Hood:

Right. 

Commissioner Stuart:

And I'm honored to have you be part of that. 

Mayor Hood:

Well, you know, we've been very fortunate in this community because we've had good strong leadership that has the vision to see what can be in the future. And, you know, we've had that in government, and we've had that in the business community, and they've worked together. And I do a lot of work with the Urban Land Institute, a lot of consulting with them. And I go to communities all over the country and work with them on development or transportation issues. And some of those communities, the government and business sectors don't work well together. And so they're not advancing, they're not progressing, they're not bringing about things that are important to the people who live there on a 24-7 basis. And that's what's important to me, to make sure that citizens who live in those neighborhoods and know what's going on 24-7 in those neighborhoods, that they're able to be part of the process and help make those decisions. And I think you and I you know, feel the same way about that. And that's why, you know, when I was elected mayor, I made sure that people out there in the neighborhoods had an identity for their neighborhood, that they had a say in what their neighborhood needed, and that they could bring things about. That's why we put the matching grants program in place, things like that. 

Commissioner Stuart:

And we're celebrating the 30th year of that, congratulations. 

Mayor Hood:

Yes, yes, we're doing that and had a great celebration with so many of the neighbors that I hadn't seen in many years. 

Commissioner Stuart:

Well, I want to think of the work that you do, I think of community building that is very basic. And, and I've now served 20 years as a commissioner. And I will tell you that much of the things that we've accomplished were because our communities had identity, they had leadership, they knew kind of what they wanted, they also knew they were part of something bigger. And, and when they when that works together, you have a great community. 

Mayor Hood:

You do. And, you know, leadership lays the foundation for a lot of things that come about in the future. And I've always said, you can't be concerned with who's going to get the credit for things, because you have to plant those seeds, and you have to nourish them over time. And sometimes, the timing isn't perfect for things. And it takes, you know, some changing of mindsets for people. But if you believe in it, and you have purpose, and people come together, it'll happen. 

Commissioner Stuart:

Reminds me of a Bible verse from from Paul, where he says, “Some plant some water and some reap the benefits of it.” Yes. And I think that that's what real leadership is to look and see where you play in that role. 

Mayor Hood:

Right. 

Commissioner Stuart:

And, and because all you want to do is kind of further the community. Okay, now, I first got to know you when you were crazy enough to ask me to go take a youth baseball team to you Urayasu, Japan, our sister city in Urayasu, I guess they pronounce it Uraya City, was how they pronounce it. It was a wonderful experience. And one I will never forget, and I'm so honored that you allowed me to do that. But as we move forward in our story, how did you become the mayor of Orlando? So now you've, you're sitting on council…

Mayor Hood:

Right. 

Commissioner Stuart:

And the next thing you know, you become mayor. 

Mayor Hood:

Well, I was privileged to serve on city council for three terms halfway through my third four year term. Again, I had people in the community come to me and say, you need to run for mayor. You've got the experience, you've got the knowledge and Mayor Frederick was in office at the time. And I learned a lot from him. And he really mentored me in many ways. And he decided he was not going to run again. And so I once again stood up and raised my hand and said, you know, I'm willing to take that big step and serve as Mayor of the City of Orlando. And I was elected three times. And, you know, it's funny, I have to tell you a story. So the first day in office as mayor, I'm sitting there in the Mayor's Office. And of course, everyone's very attentive and bringing things in. Now I knew all the city staff. So I was very fortunate. And that helped tremendously. It wasn't like walking into a building and with people that I didn't know. But at the same time, I knew there needed to be some reorganization to be able to suit the vision and some of the goals that I had. But anyway, so I'm sitting there my first day in office and people are bringing things into me. And it was running through my mind. It's like I had never been there. I was like, what do I do now? And a good friend of mine actually came by the office and he said, “Okay, I want you to just lean back in your chair. And I'm gonna take a picture of your first day in office.” And so he did. And, you know, I just, you know, I was very privileged to be able to serve as Mayor of this city. And with lots of support of people in the neighborhoods, the business community, you know, those that were in city government, it, it was just a good time. It really was. 

Commissioner Stuart:

You have to be careful what you ask for because you may actually get it. 

Mayor Hood:

That's fine. 

Commissioner Stuart:

Okay, so much happened during your tenure. And I've just touched on a couple. But we have the planning for the New City Hall. The growth of downtown Orlando, I guess, you're in the City Hall, converting the Naval Train Center into Baldwin Park, high tech initiatives, neighborhood initiatives, so much more, as you reflect back on mayor more than 20 years ago. What do you remember most fondly? 

Mayor Hood:

Well, I'll tell you what was really important to me. It was again, getting people involved in city government, having a voice that had not had a voice before. So making sure that citizen engagement was first and foremost. And we made sure that each neighborhood had an identity. So that was something that I really enjoyed going out into the neighborhood, meeting people, really helping them work through how they would come to City Council and ask for things how they would, you know, lobby, how they could get resources for their neighborhoods, how they could work with other organizations. So that that was very important to me. And I think probably I'll always be known as kind of the neighborhood mayor in many ways.

Commissioner Stuart:

 Which is great by the way.

Mayor Hood:

Yeah. And speaking of neighborhoods, first year in office, in fact, I hadn't been in office very long. And all of a sudden, we go through the base reuse and closure process, every naval recruit had come to Orlando for their basic training. And it was a big economic boost for the community. But we made it through the first base reuse and closure process. And in the second one, the decision was made, a bad one, in my opinion, that all the new recruits would go to Michigan instead of to Orlando, which really didn't make too much sense because it gets cold in Michigan in the wintertime. But be it as it may, we had four parcels of property, the largest being what is now Baldwin Park, available. And so we had to go through a very long, it was actually a six to seven year process to turn that former Naval Training Center property into something different. And I was convinced that it needed to be a neighborhood and it needed to be able to blend with all the surrounding neighborhoods that needed to have parks that needed to have schools needed to have a little village center. And so it was a long and arduous process. And I spent a lot of time in Washington, DC, working with the Navy, lobbying them, making sure that we were able to move forward in the way that the community wanted. We put together a community commission that represented every aspect of the community, whether it was transportation or whether it was housing, the nonprofit sector, etc. And they really made the decision and built the vision for what is now Baldwin Park. So I'm very proud of that. And that's really one of the most ambitious economic development projects that the city's ever undertaken. We received all kinds of accolades and awards, whether it was from the Urban Land Institute or National League of Cities for the planning that went into it and what we brought about. And it continues to be a very vibrant neighborhood in our city. And what was interesting, we really thought it would be a destination for people moving into the City of Orlando. It became a relocation neighborhood for people. People loved what they saw. They love the fact that the new urbanism components were incorporated into it the way the streets were designed, the way housing was put in place. And so a lot of people moved from their neighborhood into Baldwin Park, and it continues to be a real asset for us, I think. 

Commissioner Stuart:

Well, and I took over or became a commissioner in 2006. So in 2006, there's only a small portion of Baldwin Park built out.

Mayor Hood:

Correct. 

Commissioner Stuart:

Entirely in my district, but the entire planning was there. 

Mayor Hood:

Right. 

Commissioner Stuart:

And it really was the first time that a city had undertaken that kind of development. 

Mayor Hood:

Yes. 

Commissioner Stuart:

All the rest of the developments around the world, and the guys that came from (City of) Celebration went there. We're all done by private property owners. 

Mayor Hood:

Right. 

Commissioner Stuart:

The first time the city took engagement. And then, and then you end up this next step of, well, now we have Lake Nona. And you're engaged in that process, So.

Mayor Hood:

Oh, yes, that was a huge annexation process that we went through and put, you know, a joint planning agreement in place with Orange County at the time, which allowed us to annex all that property contiguous to the international airport. And, you know, Lake Nona again, is a great success trade, but we increased the size of the city by 50% with that annexation. 

Commissioner Stuart:

Absolutely, Yes.

Mayor Hood:

And, you know, getting back to Baldwin Park, and you were talking about celebration and some of these other communities that are brought about. One thing we were certain we were going to do is we were going to make sure that the new development, the neighborhood integrated into all the surrounding neighborhoods, as I said before, that it wasn't like celebration where it's a destination, and you really have to get in your car to go someplace. Baldwin Park, Lake Nona is becoming this way. You can go on bike trails, you can hike, you can, you know, have public transportation to get places instead of being isolated on a little island. 

Commissioner Stuart:

One of the challenges I have, because you like your area in Lancaster and Downtown and College Park, that you wanted much of the feel of those areas,

Mayor Hood:

Right, right.

Commissioner Stuart:

In Baldwin. And you had the benefit of kind of having a clean slate to do what you want to do. Retrofitting Lancaster or College Park is very difficult in terms of bike trails and those kinds of things. But they developed their own kind of city center and their own kind of by accident, but organically, here, at Baldwin trying to kind of had to feel this organic, but you could do some things structurally that kind of helped that I remember.

Mayor Hood:

Right.

Commissioner Stuart:

I remember when they were starting to build it, and they took up all this stuff, and there was a lot of mitigation and getting some, there was this mountain of concrete that was just been accumulated, right? And it must have been 100 feet, 200 feet tall, just in the middle of it, and it eventually got used for aggregate and for the roads. But I can remember driving by for several months going, there's a base that has a mountain in it. 

Mayor Hood:

Yeah. Well, and you're you're right, we use some really different techniques by grinding all that old concrete up and using it for the foundation for a lot of the development that took place. But yeah, the planning process took that six or seven years, and then it slowly developed over time. And you've been able to see that and be part of that process and decision making as well. 

Commissioner Stuart:

It's probably taken 15 years to build out. 

Mayor Hood:

Yeah, yeah. 

Commissioner Stuart:

I think there's only one major parcel not yet built out there.

Mayor Hood:

Mhmm, yeah. 

Commissioner Stuart:

But the feeling is just such a neat feeling over there, because they did buy into the neighborhood feeling. 

Mayor Hood:

Yes. 

Commissioner Stuart:

And, and you need to be congratulated for that, because that doesn't happen by accident. Just somebody has to step up and say, this is, “When it's all over guys, this needs to be a neighborhood.”

Mayor Hood:

Well, and believe me, it wasn't always easy. And there was a lot of controversy along the way. But we had many, many public meetings. In fact, I think if you count the number of public meetings we had, it's almost 250, as we were going through that planning process. And I was convinced, as I've always been, that if you allow people to express their thoughts and opinions, you don't have to agree. And you can up front say, you know, we want to hear what you have to say. But in the end, we may not go that direction. That's all people want, they want to be heard. And so, as I said, it wasn't always easy. The Navy wasn't always easy to deal with and the decision making. The joke was, I would take my little suitcase when I was up there lobbying for the resources we needed in Washington, DC. And I'd go into the Pentagon pulling my suitcase and walk into the office of the person I was dealing with and say, “I'm staying until we get the right answer.” And so, you know, you have to keep a little sense of humor as you're going through some of these very stressful decision making times. 

Commissioner Stuart:

That's perfect. Okay, so now, Baldwin Park is a big project. Neighborhoods are a big project. 

Mayor Hood:

Yes. Well, there's some other things. 

Commissioner Stuart:

Is there anything that's kind of, share some more with me, because I'd like to hear a little bit more behind the behind the curtain.

Mayor Hood:

Sure. Well, you know, I could see that we were becoming a real international city and we had the opportunity to host World Cup and Olympic soccer. And so I was determined that we were going to benefit from that just not as, you know, becoming a sports venue, but business wise. And so I said, okay, we're going to take business delegations to the countries that are bringing people here for these soccer matches. And we're going to find business opportunities. And we indeed did. We were able to have new businesses established as a result of those partnerships that were brought about. So we did that. We also worked with the Economic Development Commission, it was called that at the time, as well as the chamber to make sure that the businesses did benefit in every way. And that as we were becoming more international, and certainly all the international flights coming into our community, that people saw not just that we were someplace for recreation and attractions and fun, but we also were serious about business. So that was one thing that I really focused on. We had a major parks initiative, I wanted to make sure that not only were the parks that were existing refurbished, and I know we're going through that process again, because that needs to happen over and over in a city, but that we have little pocket parks and neighborhoods where people could go and enjoy themselves. And then we developed some other larger parks as well. And I wanted to make sure that each neighborhood had close access to green space and parks and trails. So we started that initiative as well. And then the arts. The arts is an economic development generator for a community.

Commissioner Stuart:

Well, let me interrupt you. I've had the honor again of being part of what you started, especially with the Menello. And it is such a neat place. People don't, I mean, Orlando has got some really neat things going on with it. But they see this and go, "Gosh, that's kind of interesting." Well, no, it's like really a cool thing. I mean, you need to go over there. And between that and the culmination of Loch Haven Park, we have found that as much as sports can connect with business, 

Mayor Hood:

Arts can too.

Commissioner Stuart:

You led the example of arts can also connect with business. 

Mayor Hood:

Right, right. And I think, you know, it was a time in our community where people didn't step up and support the arts as much as they do now. Because, again, that's changing a mindset. We had to understand that it was an economic generator, that it was important for people visiting our community as well as enhanced educational opportunities within our own community. So yeah, and you're talking about some behind the scenes stories with the Menello Museum. Michael and Marilyn Menello came into my office one day and knew that because I'd been president of Florida League of Cities and had connections in Tallahassee, they said, "Would you help us find the right people to talk to in Tallahassee because we want to give our collection to the state?" I came home that night and I thought, "There is no way we are going to let this beautiful folk art collection leave our community." So I'm not going to help them find someone in Tallahassee. We're going to keep it right here. And within a matter of months, thanks to our wonderful city folks, we found a location. We did all the work to make it into a little gem of a museum. And I hope more and more people will go and visit because it is a wonderful museum. 

Commissioner Stuart:

And behind the curtains is that we are raising money to expand the museum,

Mayor Hood:

Yes, yes.

Commissioner Stuart:

Which we're thrilled about doing. We want to do that. And I think it's just another way of saying that if you're going to build a city, you've got to build it with arts. Mayor Dyer has continued that. 

Mayor Hood:

Right. He has. And I'm so grateful that he has. 

Commissioner Stuart:

And your work with Dr. Phillips Center and the Performing Arts, that led to this wonderful world class building we have. 

Mayor Hood:

So you may not know the backstory there. But I invited an Urban Land Institute panel to come to Orlando because these advisory panels come to communities. Like I said, I work on these now and share a lot of them around the country. But had this panel come to Orlando because I wanted them to look at where would be the best place for us to really promote the arts in downtown and ultimately sometime in the future build a new performing arts center because we'd really outgrown the old municipal auditorium, Bob Carr.

Commissioner Stuart:

But when you and I were growing up, it was a Muni-Aud. 

Mayor Hood:

Yes, it was. It was. I did a huge piano recital there. That's where I met my now husband. 

Commissioner Stuart:

That's where I graduated from high school.

Mayor Hood:

I did too! So a lot of memories there and great memories. But the community was growing and we needed something bigger. So the panel recommended a site downtown for a performing arts center. Here we are 20 plus years later. That performing arts center is sitting right there where that panel recommended. And downtown, they recommended that we could really help our downtown grow and become more lively with the arts. And certainly we're continuing to do that and partnering with our church community and partnering with nonprofits and the business community. So, again, you have to be patient. We couldn't build it overnight, but we have a beautiful facility in place now. 

Commissioner Stuart:

I've shared it on many occasions that the arts are such a difference. And there are many things I like. And I would go across the country to go see them. But in a community, you have to say that the arts as a part of our community has to celebrate all kinds of arts so that everybody's engaged somewhere, whether it's performance art or display art or the growth of the fringe is a good example.

Mayor Hood:

Well, you know, I would always say that art is not just a painting on the wall or a performance on a stage. It's how we design our communities. It's how we, you know, put things in place in our neighborhoods. There's art all around us if you think about it. I mean, whether it's cars or furniture or landscape design, that's all art. And culture is who we are as people and how we celebrate our differences and come together around those differences. 

Commissioner Stuart:

It really does define a community. 

Mayor Hood:

Yeah, it does. 

Commissioner Stuart:

You're exactly right. Yeah. Okay, so we've had some pretty colorful leaders in our community and you've had a chance to deal with some. 

Mayor Hood:

I'm not sure what you're referring to. 

Commissioner Stuart:

I will tell you this. Let me jump to it. In some of the biography stuff that you've done and you've done an oral history, which is, by the way, just wonderful. And the first part of it is just about you and where you came and what happened. And then the second section, which I thought was great, was who the people you met as mayor and the conversation you had with Margaret Thatcher, of all people. And I'm thinking to myself, that's like really cool. 

Mayor Hood:

It was. It's funny. I was just looking at some pictures from the time that Margaret Thatcher came here to visit. So, yeah, again, that was part of making sure that people realized that Orlando was on the map, not just within our country and within our state, but internationally as well. So we were fortunate to be able to have some pretty prominent people come to the community. 

Commissioner Stuart:

I'll tell you what you did. And I have the honor of knowing Mayor Langford. It shouldn't be so frank. But knowing Mayor Langford, knowing Mayor Frederick, knowing you and working with what I've noticed around the country is that, it's only really a handful of cities, when you say the name, you don't have to say anything else. And their cities like San Francisco or London. And through y'all's guidance, and I've had a chance of being working with you, that's what Orlando has become.

Mayor Hood:

Yes.

Commissioner Stuart:

Because people say, "When I'm around, where are you from Orlando?" Orlando! Yes, I know about that. And all of a sudden there is an individual identity around the world for what we do. 

Mayor Hood:

Yes, there is. 

Commissioner Stuart:

And you need to be complimented for that. 

Mayor Hood:

And if you go back and look on old maps of Florida, Orlando was not even on the map. And so that was one thing I know the Chamber of Commerce was pretty upset about, and so they worked to make sure that Orlando was always on every map. But you're right. You don't have to say Orlando, Florida anymore. It's Orlando and people recognize us. And certainly they recognize us because of the theme parks. And that's the primary reason we have visitors come, but that's changing. And that's what we want. We want people to go to our arts offerings, and we want people to come to our sports events. And we want people to just come and visit their friends here. Or maybe move here. We're getting that too. 

Commissioner Stuart:

When you were mayor, I think population was around 200,000? 

Mayor Hood:

That's correct. 

Commissioner Stuart:

And now it's right at 350,000. And with the growth of Lake Nona, we could be at half a million in a very short amount of time. Very easily. 

Mayor Hood:

People are always surprised that we're not several million people because, again, because we're so well known and we have so much to offer. So for a city our size, even though we've grown a tremendous amount in the last couple decades, we're still small compared to a lot of these major cities, but we have so much to offer. 

Commissioner Stuart:

Interesting part in California. California is known as Orange County, California. Orange County and Orlando in this area is known as the Orlando area. So it's not called Los Angeles. It's Orange County, California, and the Orlando area.

Mayor Hood:

Yes.

Commissioner Stuart:

Which I know makes some of the guys in the county a little bit uncomfortable. But the flagship has always taken the name.

Mayor Hood:

I know, exactly.

Commissioner Stuart:

Even though there's three or four million people around here, the flagship taken the name. Now, as we wind up, and as I mentioned before, there's a lot of information. So if you all want to know facts and things and great stories, they're on the website. But legacy becomes an important word, a very interesting word to all of us. You've had the privilege of really being kind of a living legacy, at least to me. As you reflect on this idea, what are some guiding thoughts or words that you have kind of for the next generation of leaders? 

Mayor Hood:

Well, first of all, get involved. Get involved in your community. Volunteer. If it's just for a tree planting in your neighborhood or with a nonprofit organization. But volunteer for a purpose and make sure that you're willing to work with and listen to and bring things about with other people. Don't go in with a personal agenda ever. Be courageous. If you believe in something, stand up for it. I think that's so important. And be thoughtful and respectful of others' opinions. Because a lot of times, that's not the case. And I think we're seeing that so much right now in our communities. And it saddens me. We really need to be respectful and thoughtful of one another. Like I said earlier, don't be concerned with who's going to get the credit for something. Do what's right. And listen to others. I think that's an important attribute that you need to have. And humility goes a long ways. I can't emphasize that enough. You know, there's a little book that somebody gave me and it's called "Balcony People." And it says, "Surround yourself with people who elevate each other and pull people up to do good things and be purposeful." Don't let people pull you down. And I think if we're all balcony people and do things for the right reasons and make our communities better and work together and be respectful with each other, I think, you know, our communities and our world is going to be a much better place. 

Commissioner Stuart:

And we need that more than ever.

Mayor Hood:

Yes. 

Commissioner Stuart:

Let me just say thank you. It's my intent to make sure these stories are told, but it's also my intent to have people want to know more about our community. And you've accomplished that. If you want to know more about Mayor Glenda Hood, her lifetime as a public servant, you can read those details at the HistoryCenter.org, OrlandoLandTrust.org, Orlandomemory.org. Or, if you want to, just Google her. There are some great articles about you in the paper and on Google and I am so grateful for that.

Mayor Hood:

Well, I want to thank you for your public service because it's not easy. I think it gets harder and harder every year. But for those of you that step up and take on leadership roles, I'm eternally grateful that we continue to have great leadership in our community. 

Commissioner Stuart:

Well, like with you, both of us will give the credit to our parents. 

Mayor Hood:

Absolutely. 

Commissioner Stuart:

They're the ones that said, that taught us that your task, if you're going to be involved in a community, you have to be engaged. 

Mayor Hood:

And your parents and my parents were both very involved in the community and set a great example for us. 

Commissioner Stuart:

Mayor Hood, thank you so much. Thank you. I'm honored to have spent the time with you and and speaking on behalf of our entire community. Let me express our gratitude for you and your leadership. Our city would not be what it is today without you. I want you to say thank you. I also want to thank our listeners for taking a few minutes of their time to join us today. So that's it for now. Please look for more discussions or Orlando's History Makers on this podcast channel. I'm your host, Orlando City Commissioner Robert Stuart. I appreciate your listening. Remember, let's value our past, learn from it, and make our future brighter than ever. Thank you.

Episode 4 - former Orlando Mayor Bill Frederick

In this episode, Commissioner Stuart talks with former Orlando Mayor Bill Frederick about his time as Orlando’s mayor and the projects he thought were transformational to Orlando.

Listen to episode 4 now

Read the transcript:

Orlando Commissioner Robert Stuart:

Thank you for joining us today with Orlando History Makers. I'm your host, Orlando City Council Member Robert Stuart, asking for just a few minutes of your time as we learn what makes our city and community so exciting and vibrant. It's my intent to bring some of the great stories of Orlando's history to life, to look at the impact of these events and the people and to create an interest in our very exciting history. Today we're joined by one of my favorite people in the whole world, former Mayor of Orlando, Bill Frederick. There is so much I could say about introducing you to listeners, Mayor Bill, but let's just start with just the basics. Okay. Mayor Frederick is the son of a Winter Haven Haberdasher and moved to Orlando many years ago, became mayor in 1980 and oversaw a surge of growth and prosperity that may never be duplicated. He served as mayor for 12 years and engineered Orlando into a framework for becoming a world class city, the world class city that is today. So thank you Mayor for joining me.

Former Orlando Mayor Bill Frederick:

Well, you're most welcome.

Commissioner Stuart:

Before we begin, will you just share a few minutes about your early life and coming to Orlando?

Mayor Frederick:

Well, I grew up in Winter Haven and I had always wanted to be a lawyer from way back and not only a lawyer but a trial lawyer and back in those days, those opportunities were very limited. For example, in Orlando we had fewer than a thousand lawyers, sorry, fewer than a hundred lawyers altogether, a very small number.

Commissioner Stuart:

That's a long time. About what time is this?

Mayor Frederick:

This was, when I was considering coming here, when I was in law school in the late 60s and early 70s. And in any event, when it appeared that I was going to get out of the law school alive, I started looking around and I didn't know frankly any lawyers around the state. That may seem surprising but it was the case. So the one person I did know was the older brother of Jerry Pierce. Jerry was a neighbor of mine in Winter Haven and his older brother Frank had moved to Orlando and had a very successful law practice. So I called Frank and said, "You know, I'm looking for a job and what do you think?" And he said, "Well, let me talk to Leon." And I said, "Leon?" Well, Leon was Leon Handley who grew up in Lakeland and was a member of Gurney, McDonald, and Handley. So in due course I got an interview and was actually offered and took a job there.

Commissioner Stuart:

I read through your book and we're going to talk later on about your book called A Mayor's Tale. And you read your book and you got paid so much money, like $450 a month.

Mayor Frederick:

Yes. That wasn't a living wage back then but it was about all that anybody could get. So here I was on a starvation wage and I took it from there.

Commissioner Stuart:

Well, that's great. You know, Orlando is not the same without you.

Mayor Frederick:

Well, you're very kind.

Commissioner Stuart:

So I admire you. And now, can I take us from you're kind of this trial lawyer to now all of a sudden you get a-

Mayor Frederick:

Well, in between that I was appointed Public Defender. That's an interesting story. It won't take too much time. But I was a year and a half out of law school when the public defender system came into practice. Up until that time, if you were an accused felon that didn't have any money and you weren't charged for the capital crime when they could be result in death penalty, you stood alone by yourself in front of the judge and jury. So when the public defender system came along, John M, who was a very close friend of mine was up with the governor. And I said, "You need to come down here and you and I need to start a practice together." So the idea was John would take the public defender office and we would start a practice. Well, John's wife, Jean, didn't think Orlando was a little bit too rural for her taste and she wanted to go back to West Palm Beach. So he said, "Well, blah, blah, blah, I can't come, but why don't you take it?" I said, "Me?" And truthfully, I not only had never tried a criminal case, I had never seen one, never been in it. I had never seen it. So anyhow, the long and short is that the offer was made for me to take it. I took it and I enjoyed every bit of it. It was a great learning experience and a fun time.

Commissioner Stuart:

Now, at that time, the public defender was actually a part-time job, wasn't it?

Mayor Frederick:

It was. We had 18 circuits in the state, there now more. My circuit had eight counties. I went all the way down to St. Lucie and Martin in Okeechobee, 400 miles round trip to a hearing down in Okeechobee County. And it was a great opportunity.

Commissioner Stuart:

I didn't have much staff either, if I'm reflecting.

Mayor Frederick:

Actually when this was funded, the total funding for the entire Ninth Circuit, which was our Eight County Circuit, was $15,500. That was $9,000 something for a public defender and $6,000 for an assistant. Everything else was left unfunded and left for the local defender to locate from the volunteer services of the various counties that were to be serviced.

Commissioner Stuart:

How was that possible?

Mayor Frederick:

Well, it was damn near impossible, pardon the term. But we, clearly, this system was here to stay. And when I went first to Orange County, I took quite a bit of time talking to the judges and to Mike S, who was the county solicitor, and ended up getting an idea about how much we would need in terms of funding and so forth. And I went to Orange County and I had divided a budget up that all these judges approved. And Orange County looked at it very, very sympathetically and gave me exactly what I wanted. And my next trip was to Seminole County. And wow, that was a different story altogether. I know Senior had made my request and one of the commissioners said, "Move to deny." And in about a two-minute appearance before that commission body, I'd lost my funding. So I had the wits about me for surprising even today to think about that. But I said, "Could I have a minute?" I said, "Let me point something out. Everybody that's charged with a criminal case is going to have to sit in your jail until they're convicted or acquitted. That can, because your trial term is sometimes only once a year, that means you're going to have to feed and look after these people in large numbers for a long time at great expense." And I said, "You know, if you would simply give me what I'm asking, I think I can reduce that total cost of yours, which you can't avoid, by the way. I can reduce that substantially." And along in the short of this, the county reversed its position. I got funded and off we went.

Commissioner Stuart:

That's great. Yeah. Now, there's a timeframe between kind of that and being Mayor.

Mayor Frederick:

Yeah, that was 1963 and, of course, I started running for Mayor in the mid-70s.

Commissioner Stuart:

But you and I have a separate history of pre-mayor.

Mayor Frederick:

Yeah.

Commissioner Stuart:

But you got involved in politics a little bit. Tell me a little bit about the key people. The interesting part in reading your book, “A Mayor's Tale,” by the way, is that all the names that you mentioned are guys who I knew and grew up with. I mean, I was the young little kid. So, you know, Butch Wooden and Jerry Billings, these are guys who I used to sell to them at a previous job and got a chance to know them. It was so much fun reading your book.

Mayor Frederick:

Well, it was a fun time and an important time. Obviously, it was frontier justice before we got a right to lawyers for people accused of major crimes. And that's the way it should have been resolved and, in fact, was resolved.

Commissioner Stuart:

So now you got politics. Now you get involved in politics.

Mayor Frederick:

Yep. I had gotten the Public Defender Office well established and we were moving along very well, I thought. And I had been president of the State Public Defender Association and LeRoy Collins decided to run for the U.S. Senate and asked me if I would chair his campaign in Central Florida. So that gave me a chance to exit the Public Defender Office and pick that up because my personal injury trial work, the part that was not full time, was going very well and I was doing better than I had hoped and I went from there.

Commissioner Stuart:

Now, a little sidebar, you and I have had this conversation before. I also was a supporter of Governor Collins.

Mayor Frederick:

Yes. Right.

Commissioner Stuart:

And the short story goes, as I remember, you may remember a little bit differently, is that we were putting out signs and we all gathered on the edge at the old Junior Chamber of Commerce building that's on the edge of Lake Ivanhoe. We all gathered there and somehow I got picked up with you and I think you had a convertible and we just piled stuff in the back. And here we are saying, "Put the signs out." So we are going down every street, going down Livingston and we are nailing signs into trees hanging over the road.

Mayor Frederick:

And telephone poles.

Commissioner Stuart:

And they say, "The guy pulls us over." And says, "I'm a police officer." He says, "I'm sorry. You can't do that, sir." And I'm thinking to myself, "I'm now going to go to jail." At the time, I guess I was probably 14 or 15 years old. I'm not going to go to jail. And I admire this young attorney so much. But I had never forgotten that and it was really kind of my first foray into doing anything in terms of the politics. Later on with George and some other stuff that we did. It was really a lot of fun. And I'll never forget that.

Mayor Frederick:

I'll let me add one little curious thing is that, of course, we didn't have the talent or the funds to actually put signs everywhere. But what I did is I figured out the path I was going to take from the airport to where he was going to speak and we decorated all those streets and made it look like we had really done something.

Commissioner Stuart:

It was so much fun. Okay, so as you know, the people that are listening, you purchased a home just really a few houses from where I grew up. And I was older at the time. I was, I guess, in high school. And it was great having you as a neighbor. And fell in love with you and fell in love with Joanne. But I want to talk a little bit now kind of towards the direction of becoming mayor.

Tell me, how did you become, how did you come to mayor? So we had Bob Carr who passed away in office and Carl Langford who had lost Bob and then ran again. And when Bob, the Mayor, Carr passed away. And then Carl had served up until 1980. And so kind of bring everybody a little bit up to date.

Mayor Frederick:

Yeah, I had never given any serious thought to local office. Frankly, I thought people that did that were a little bit beneath the interest area that I had in politics. A little vain, I might add, but that was the case. And I had gotten a job as chairman of the Department of Pollution Control. I had been appointed to that position by first a couple of governors and then Bob Graham continued my office there. And I enjoyed that a lot.

Commissioner Stuart:

Which became the model of the EPA.

Mayor Frederick:

Yeah, Florida's equivalent of that, yeah. And we regulated the price of utilities and a number of things that were very important to the state. So I had a background in that. I was a little bit known because I had, there was a sub little cabinet office and I did things with editorial boards around the state. And I thought maybe one day I might take on a elected office, but local office was not on the chart. That all sort of changed when we ran into, Disney was coming here, we had an airport that was in conversion taking over the Orlando Air Force Base and converting it into the international airport that it is today. We worked hard to keep that going. In the meantime, Champ Williams, who had run the Skyline restaurant at the Orlando, the smaller airport.

Commissioner Stuart:

He had all the concessions.

Mayor Frederick:

Yep. Well, anyhow, he had managed to get his hands on everything and everybody at the city at the time were given Champ anything he wanted. And they even came to me four years before I ran and wanted me to run. And Shelton Adams came and was the emissary of Champ Williams and said, "We think you ought to run." And I could see at that time that I was going to be the spokesperson for Champ and that didn't sit well with me. So I said, "No." And much to my surprise, Shelton decided to run himself. He couldn't find anybody else and he almost beat Carl Langford in a race that was very close. And then in two years later, after that defeat, he was elected to the city council and it was against Shelton Adams that I was propped up to be the candidate for mayor. Peter Barr came to me and Jerry Chicone and a number of good friends. Your brother, Jacob, actually had been Carl Langford's campaign manager and that allowed him to exit and be part of my campaign as well. So we went from there and it was an uphill battle. I mean, clearly I was against the city commissioner that was on the news every night and we ran a very hard race and I ran it for a year and a half and ended up being very successful. I think out of the 30 districts, I think I took 28 and was sort of a landslide in those terms. And that's how I got in.

Commissioner Stuart:

The interesting part is, in reading through your book, what happened in 1980 now is considered commonplace in order to run a campaign. What you did with just manpower was to identify who the super voters were in the city and just went out to the super voters and their households.

Mayor Frederick:

Yeah, and to get those names, you had to go down at that time. The computerized list didn't exist. So we went down literally and by hand went through every voter record and if somebody didn't vote in the city election, we discounted. We reduced the people that we would have to contact by that process.

Commissioner Stuart:

Now today, that is done literally in seconds.

Mayor Frederick:

It is literally.

Commissioner Stuart:

And I've run now five campaigns and every one of those campaigns has been focused on that same area. I've had the data to be able to do that. I can't imagine the volunteers going down and going through every one of these cards of people and saying, OK.

Mayor Frederick:

It was a chore. But the importance of it was if you didn't do it, you didn't have the data. And so Shelton didn't bother to do that. And I had enough benefit of knowing where we could concentrate our forces and to have an advantage that way.

Commissioner Stuart:

And it was successful. You won pretty big.

Mayor Frederick:

Yeah, pretty big.

Commissioner Stuart:

And the day I literally could write if you wrote a book in 1980 about that. I think people around the country would go this is the smartest idea in the whole world. And they just eventually caught up with your idea. Which now makes it happen so fast. So OK. Quick story. Tell me a little bit about your first meeting and one of our very good friends, Grace Chumney, and her willingness to kind of help guide you through the first meeting.

Mayor Frederick:

Well, as I mentioned earlier, I not only had never been in this city hall, I had never had any experience with any city committees or whatever. So I was a total novice in this regard. Now, I got some help from Grace and a number of people that like you and others that knew what the hell was going on. But I came down there after I'd been elected. But before I was sworn in, I said, I'd like to look at the files and said files. We don't have any files. And the way Carl Langford, frankly, I'm very fond of the role that he played. He just write for the Times and so forth. A good mayor. But he organized it differently. And I said, I'd like to see his files. Well, we don't have any. OK. And his office was in this cavernous building. Oh, yeah, too big in the door. He took the door off. Carl Langford, a very clever politician, had an open-door policy, which was literally he took the door off his office. And if you walk by and the mayor was sitting behind his desk, you were sort of encouraged to come in and say, hello. Well, that was nice, but I couldn't get anything done with that. So I moved my office to where it currently stayed for the rest of the time that that building was in place. And that room was occupied by Carl Langford's gun collection all over the floor. Machine guns, rifles, pistols, mortars, everything you can imagine. And he had only one key, which, of course, he did surrender to be at the time. And due course, we cleaned all that up. And that's where I ended up practicing as mayor. And it was but it was it was it was a challenging time because we had to reinvent local government. I mean, we went from the way he had done it to the way that I had got some good advice from trying to think of who it was with... Anyhow, one of my good friends in the state came down and helped out and we reorganized the whole plan and put it together. And the city adopted it and we went from there.

Commissioner Stuart:

Well, you're right that Carl was the right mayor at the right time. And I'm going to tell you, you are the right mayor at the right time.

Mayor Frederick:

Well, thank you.

Commissioner Stuart:

I do want to share a story that Jacob told me because the benefit of me doing this is I kind of know all of y'all. So Jacob said, Jacob, where was all the data? He goes, Carl Langford took a letter, a few of them a letter. He would turn it over and would write his response on the back and he would mail it back to you. And I said, didn't you ever keep a copy? Well, no, I keep a copy. So you send a letter to him. Today is all you email, everything's tracked. But he what you would normally do is you would write a response. You'd have a carbon copy of some sort. You attach it. You keep it. He didn't do they did the actual letter, wrote the response back and I can sit it back and didn't have to touch it. And I thought to myself that today's that is ingenious.

Mayor Frederick:

Well, let me tell you, you know, Orlando was beginning to feel the impact of Disney and we'd gone through this announcement to an explosion of growth and our wastewater system just couldn't adopt to the growth demands at the time. And it went from there and we had to reorganize virtually everything that we did. Mayor Langford was a night owl. He, according to Randall James, who was his aide, apparently would be tippling a little bit and he would show up late in the afternoon and that's the way it went. And so we had to work around all of that. And the crime rate in Orlando, we had grown as a result of the influx of Disney personnel and so forth. We were the head, the highest crime rate of any city in Florida and one of the highest in the nation. Now, part of that may have been that we weren't counting our visitors correctly, but in any event, the by the crime rate was twice what it was in the city of the major city. So the first thing we did is what we should have done and what city should do. And that is public safety is the number one issue of, thank any city government and then recreation and other things that that come along are part of it. But we, we took that on and it was up. It was a challenge. I mean, the city was a mess. You, it was as a family member, you wouldn't want to take your family through Lake Eola at the time. The streets were a mess and all of this, the Langford administration had reduced the police department by 15 or 20 percent. Well, it should have gone the other way around. And we did that and we got the crime rate not, didn't eliminate it because you never do that. But we bought it where it wasn't the number one concern in people's minds.

Commissioner Stuart:

Yeah. All right. So let's go back to the city hall. Yeah. Because you're the closest thing I know to a bonafide movie star.

Mayor Frederick:

Well, you're talking about when we destroyed when we-

Commissioner Stuart:

So we built a new city hall. And we built it behind the existing city hall.

Mayor Frederick:

But we needed the existing and overlapped with the existing city hall. So that had to come down and somebody on my staff had the bright idea. It may have been Tom Kohler. I can't remember. I said, you know, I think we could sell this implosion to the movies and get a little money and get some out of it. Sure enough. Danny Glover, I think. And who the other movie star was.

Commissioner Stuart:

Lethal Weapon.

Mayor Frederick:

Yeah, they came. They came here and blew up the city hall and that and I remember I got -

Commissioner Stuart:

You got a speaking part.

Mayor Frederick:

I did have a speaking part.

Commissioner Stuart:

But you weren't mayor. What were you?

Mayor Frederick:

I was. Well, at that time I was the mayor.

Commissioner Stuart:

I know, but in the movie-

Mayor Frederick:

But in the movie I was head of the police that of the task force. I think I had a two sentence line about what's going on here. Something like that.

Commissioner Stuart:

Just enough so you can have to just -

Mayor Frederick:

But curiously enough, my name was never mentioned in the credits of the movie. No? One of my one of my real disappointments in life.

Commissioner Stuart:

Now you remember the way it was all set up. But there was a little cafe area that was right down on the downstream. I watched the entire thing from there.

Mayor Frederick:

Oh, really.

Commissioner Stuart:

So everybody who could be anybody was could get down there. So we got down there and watched it. It was it was wonderful. I mean, I just but you're a movie star. All right. So let's talk a little bit about your tenure because you brought a little bit of it. So we have a new city hall and the growth of downtown Orlando, the transformation of Lake Eola, all things are involved with the expansion of the airline international airport, which is incredible. The new Orlando arena -

Mayor Frederick:

Right.

Commissioner Stuart:

In your term, the creation of the Orlando Magic.

Mayor Frederick:

Right. The planning for the new performing arts center.

Commissioner Stuart:

Right. So those just a few.

Mayor Frederick:

Yeah.

Commissioner Stuart:

When you reflect back now, 30 years later. What do you remember most fondly about those things? What comes to mind?

Mayor Frederick:

I think the thing that was the most interesting in reflection was the struggle to obtain the downtown arena. The funding was entirely controlled by the county. And the county hated me. And uhh..

Commissioner Stuart:

How is that possible?

Mayor Frederick:

And I tell you how it was possible. Your brother made it possible. George, who had been on the city council and had then been elected to the Senate, made it known that if this wasn't going to be a downtown and if the proper funding wouldn't appropriately allowed, there wouldn't be a new arena. And sure enough, we went through one session of the legislature and didn't get it done.

Commissioner Stuart:

I remember.

Mayor Frederick:

And it was a touch and go thing. But when the county finally realized that they were up against a wall, they came to their senses in and we worked it out. But not without, frankly, daily struggles with the county.

Commissioner Stuart:

Well, back in those days when you want a professional sports team, you had to build the arena and say, OK, I've got it now come. Yeah. And NBA's do an expansion. Jacob was in the middle of all that stuff. I want to share some of his stories. But when you go back and look at the Orlando Arena, we didn't we didn't have a basketball team when we built it.

Mayor Frederick:

No, we didn't have anything when we built it.

Commissioner Stuart:

And we kind of built it a little bit for hockey.

Mayor Frederick:

Well, let me let me point this out. In the entire state of Florida, there was not an enclosed building that would seat a hundred thousand people. Big enclosed arenas and facilities simply didn't exist. Now, Miami and Jacksonville were in the process of getting that done. And that helped us out because we weren't the first. But Miami clearly had their mind to have a facility that would accommodate an expansion team for an NBA basketball group. And we were in competition with Miami for that. There are a lot of ancillary stories we don't have time to get into, but that was an interesting challenge, too, as to how we competed with that. And you may you will recall, but people listening will not recall that the NBA decided to go for two teams. And we ended up in Miami, got one. I think if they had just done one at the time, probably we would have lost. And we got one eventually, but not at the time we did.

Commissioner Stuart:

So interesting how all the pieces of parts came together. So we're building arena. Pat Williams kind of adopts us and thinks it's a great idea. So he's got all the connections internally. You are now in the middle of all this stuff. And then there was this move that we had to have so many season tickets sold. And so we sold it.

Mayor Frederick:

Oversold it.

Commissioner Stuart:

Yep. And we're like 16000 season ticket subscriptions. I'm not sure how many actually bought their first season ticket, but you could pay for like, I think, two or three hundred dollars. You get a down payment into it.

Mayor Frederick:

Well, that was the way it was not, I get no credit for that part of it, but that was brilliant and it was well done by the people that took it on.

Commissioner Stuart:

It all came together. And yeah, we're here. I mean, the Magic here literally because of what you did. And then we've now gone to a new arena and all the rest of that stuff. Tell me what else when you begin. Look, I mean, the airport becomes this really important thing that's happening. UCF begins to bring new students, people from all over the state, at least, to be exposed to the Orlando, even though the site data out of Orlando. What else kind of comes to mind?

Mayor Frederick:

Well, one of the stories that's almost totally unknown is the fact that the EPA had only came into existence after the late 70s and the situation was that if you didn't have enough wastewater capacity, you couldn't get a building permit. So you had to have that beforehand. Other things that would have been attended to that requirement could have been shuffled around and waited, but not wastewater. And what we did, we what are you going to do? We needed something like 20,000 gallons a day capacity. And so we hired two engineering firms and we went into Jerry Chicone. It's a big help. I said, “Why don't we take some of this water that we use to irrigate groves and use that to spray irrigate and get rid of this affluent?” Well, that sounds pretty easy, but people who buy oranges don't necessarily want their oranges grown with wastewater. But we got that taken care of. And then we built RIBs, which are rapid infiltration basins, which by gravity, when the groves didn't need the water, we could alternate with that.

Commissioner Stuart:

Then also the Orange County National Golf Course.

Mayor Frederick:

Yeah. And then on the other side of town where the water levels were different, we couldn't use there weren't groves. So Phil Searcy decided came up. We bought 1600 acres from a local businessman here and built a rapid discharge basin where through trickle flow, these nutrients were absorbed in the water. And what was discharged out of that 1600 acres was better water than was in the receiving waters. And it was it received the grand conceptual award internationally.

Commissioner Stuart:

I think that's the Orlando Wetlands.

Mayor Frederick:

Yep. Yep. And this, you know, was not widely known, but those two things made a huge difference. We would have been in the moratorium. We could not have done what we did if we hadn't had that capacity.

Commissioner Stuart:

OK, so a lot of things happen. I know a lot of things make you proud. And obviously I'm proud just to just to call you a friend. Are there any other look behind the curtain glimpses of things that that somebody would be interested in about your terms, Mayor? I mean, I think at the time when you when you were at Ronnie's and somebody-

Mayor Frederick:

Yeah, I was at Ronnie's. That was a very popular watering hole. It's now gone. But at that time, this is where the elite met to eat and drink and have coffee. And I was there one morning with a breakfast group and I was checking out. Somebody came to the door and said, there's somebody's being killed out here. And I was at the end. So I was literally maybe 50 yards from where this was happening. And I went out there and sure enough, a guy was in the car stabbing a woman with a screwdriver would have killed her, I think. So I grabbed his feet and I think I had the help of one of the person we dragged him out. Well, he had a weapon and I didn't. So my car was parked nearby and went over and got the pistol that the city had provided, chased this guy down. And I went back to City Hall and I ended up getting the newspaper. It called me in and said, what's going on? I said, “Well, you know, the strange thing happened down here at Ronnie's and blah, blah, blah.” And I said, “You wouldn't believe.” What on the next thing I know that the whole city hall is covered with the reporters and so forth. And I was, well, you know, you shot your gun in the air. You might have shot an airplane down or that's silly stuff like that. But it turned out it started off to look like I was going to be made a fool for having done what I did. But it ended up being a celebrated event that was I got letters from all over the world on that.

Commissioner Stuart:

I think it's great. Now, there have been some colorful leaders in our community. You have dealt with some of them. And of course, I know these same names. Well, you look over your past and who you partnered with. What are some names of some people that kind of came to mind? You mentioned some of your early partners and of course, Jerry Chicone and his love for the city of Orlando.

Mayor Frederick:

Well, you and your brother and a lot of community leaders all came and accepted responsibility for things that needed to be done. And we moved along pretty good. I thought for the time we one of the things that you would have a special interest in is that we had no capacity for the indigent population that existed. And that was about a thousand fifteen hundred people out of our entire population base. And a good third of those were really honest, hardworking people just down on their luck that didn't have a job and didn't have any money. And they were an easy group to take care of because when we provided a place for them, but we didn't have a place as you know better than most that we could do. And we built that up. And today I think it works pretty well.

Commissioner Stuart:

And of course, that need is always changing.

Mayor Frederick:

Yeah.

Commissioner Stuart:

But Fred Ward was important.

Mayor Frederick:

Yes.

Commissioner Stuart:

And but as it turns out, Fred Ward was also important in the founding of the Christian Service Center.

Mayor Frederick:

Yeah.

Commissioner Stuart:

20 years earlier.

Mayor Frederick:

Yeah.

Commissioner Stuart:

I eventually ended up running. And then Fred Ward steps in the same place. And then we have these just wonderful connections with downtown. And I think what you created, I think, what anything else. And I tried to emulate that was that these agencies downtown are really in partnership with one another less than they are in competition.

Mayor Frederick:

Exactly.

Commissioner Stuart:

And when I became the Christian Service Center, I became the Executive Director back in 95. One of the things that we did was I met with the four agency heads every month. We had coffee or breakfast every month just to get to know each other.

Mayor Frederick:

And the city had never helped. They had never offered any financial help until that time. And I remember we bought the old bus station and remodeled that and did some things with it and then built up a capacity that we handled out of the say the fifteen hundred five hundred that were the indigent. We were able to take five or six hundred. It took a big bite out of the need.

Commissioner Stuart:

All right. So legacy is, you know, an important word. And you've had the privilege of being in my mind kind of a living legacy, at least to those who get to know you. As you reflect on this idea. What are some guiding words, guiding thoughts that you have for the next generation of leaders?

Mayor Frederick:

It will vary with what the needs of the community are. I think public safety is always an issue there. What right now, which I think we'd all like to see some help downtown. I think downtown is a little less than the tidy place that we'd like. The new performing arts center was a big step in getting that result. But still in all, I don't go downtown at night and doubt if you do. I'd like to see that straightened out and in the-

Commissioner Stuart:

That's a real challenge. And it's crazy that it is. It is accelerated post-COVID, which is just kind of really weird. And so the city is struggling with trying to get their arms around it. And I think we're going to get there. It's going to take some more energy. But you're exactly right. All right. So let me just kind of conclude with this. If you want to more about Mayor Bill Frederick and his time as Orlando's Mayor, you can read more about it at Orlandomemory.info through the Orange County Library systems. But there are plenty of articles about Mayor Frederick. And let me just personally recommend I shared with you his own book, his own memoir called, “A Mayor's Tale.” I love it because the subtitle is. “Navigating the rough seas of urban government.” And I can't think of anybody who would be a better articulate of that. So I appreciate what you've done. But it's really a great read, not only about history, but it's also about policy and response and how you respond. I've read the memoirs of Mayor Langford and several others. And sometimes they're just telling the facts. This is this your book, I love it because you talk about behind the facts and how you actually got there. So, Mayor Bill, thank you. I'm so honored to have spent this time with you and speaking on behalf of our entire community. I express my gratitude to you and your leadership.

Mayor Frederick:

Well, might I add that no person by himself gets these things done. I was blessed to have, I thought, basically an unqualifiedly good city council. And remember, that council went from three to five the very day that I came in. It was authorized earlier. But we have had some great people like you. And I'm happy to think that Buddy has done a great job. I think he may have stayed too long from the experience that I had, I think. But I'm a big fan of his. So I don't mean to take anything away from what he's done.

Commissioner Stuart:

Well, I want to thank you. If you want to know more about Mayor Bill Frederick and his time as Orlando's mayor, you can read more about it at OrlandoMemory.info or through the Orange County Library's systems website. There are plenty of articles about Mayor Frederick, but I personally recommend Mayor Frederick's own memoir, A Mayor's Tale. The subtitle gives you a glimpse into the book, Navigating the Rough Seas of Urban Government. It's a great read about policy, response, and interaction of local government. It's got a little history in there, too. Mayor Bill, thank you. I am so honored to have spent this time with you and speaking on behalf of our entire community. Let me express my gratitude for your leadership. Our city would not be what it is today without you. Thank you. I want to thank our listeners for taking a few minutes of your time with us today. As if for now, please look for discussions with Orlando history makers on this podcast channel. I'm your host, Orlando City Commissioner Robert Stewart, and I appreciate you listening. Remember, let's value our past, learn from it, and make our future brighter than ever. Thank you.

Mayor Frederick:

Thank you.

Episode 5 - former U.S. Senator Mel Martinez

In this episode, former U.S. Senator Mel Martinez talks about his time as Orange County mayor and his early life as a Cuban immigrant following Operation Pedro Pan.

Listen to episode 5 now

Read the transcript:

Orlando City Commissioner Robert Stuart:

Hi, this is Orlando City Commissioner Robert Stuart. Very soon I'll be retiring from my position after 20 years of service to the citizens of Orlando, but before I retire, I want to leave a gift of history. I've had the wonderful opportunity to interact with so many people that have had such an impact on our city and how it's grown and how it's developed. Please join me on this audio journey as we meet these very interesting and influential people.

Thank you for joining us again today with Orlando History Makers. I'm your host, Orlando City Councilmember Robert Stuart, asking for just a few minutes of your time as we learn what makes our city and our community so exciting and vibrant. As I've shared before, it's my intent to bring some of the great stories of Orlando's history to life, to look at the impact of these events and the people and to create an interest in our very exciting history.

Today once again, I'm joined by one of my favorite people in the whole world. a person who I've respected for years, Senator Mel Martinez. So Senator, should I call you Senator or Secretary or Mel? 

Former Senator and Orange County Mayor Mel Martinez:

Mel, Mel would work best. Thank you very much for having me. Yeah, let's make it Mel. 

Commissioner Stuart:

I was thinking, I was okay with you. Senator Martinez is a native of Cuba, came to Orlando along with his brother and my friend, Raphael, during the Operation Pedro Pan (Peter Pan). He attended Bishop Moore, in my district, by the way, attended Orlando Junior College, which some of us will remember actually what Orlando Junior College was, and eventually earned his B.S. and law degree at Florida State. He came back to Orlando, practiced for 25 years, and before beginning his public service. He was elected Mayor of Orange County in 1998. He served as a 12th Secretary of the Housing and Urban Development under President George Bush from 2001 to 2004, and later elected for the State of Florida as a Senator in 2004, and retired from there in 2010, before joining J.P. Morgan Chase. Now that is, I've just put a ton of information in a short amount of time, but I want to tell you what's neat about Senator Martinez is he's written his autobiography called "A Sense of Belonging from Castro's Cuba to the U.S. Senate, One Man's Pursuit of the American Dream." By the way, it's a great book. 

Senator Martinez:

Thank you.

Commissioner Stuart:

So thank you. It's Senator Martinez's autobiography, and it was released in 2008. Mel, thank you for joining me today. 

Senator Martinez:

It's a great pleasure to be with you, Robert. 

Commissioner Stuart:

Before we begin, your early life is so fascinating, and I'd like to just have you share a little bit about that so that people can kind of set the stage for your influence in our communities. Tell us a little bit about coming to Orlando. 

Senator Martinez:

Well, I think the story of coming to Orlando of myself and later my family is one of the kind of community Orlando is and always has been. So, I had to leave Cuba as a youngster because of the oppression and the brutal dictatorship. 

Commissioner Stuart:

And that was like about 1960, 1961? 

Senator Martinez:

Sixty-two when I came, but the dance began with Castro in 1959, and so by early 1961, my parents had decided that I just shouldn't stay because it was not going to be safe for a young man to grow in that environment. Every service, everything else was coming upon us, plus the lack of freedom and religious liberty. So in any event, they made a very tough decision. I came out, my brother came as well, and I was sent to a foster home in Orlando, and I lived here with two different foster families. That begins the Orlando story for me, which is the kindness of those people, the goodness of their heart in welcoming me to their home as a complete stranger. A person didn't speak their language, they didn't know anything about him, they didn't know how long he'd be with him.  And so…

Commissioner Stuart:

 So you showed up as well. You were about 14 or 15? 

Senator Martinez:

15, I was 15, yeah.

Commissioner Stuart:

You don't know any English.

Senator Martinez:

No.

Commissioner Stuart: 

You've been raised only in Cuba...

Senator Martinez:

Right.

Commissioner Stuart: 

And Cuba essentially had gone downhill because of Castro's reign in terms of the general. What did your mom and dad do for a living in-

Senator Martinez:

My father was a veterinarian, and my mother was a hairdresser, part-time hairdresser. She was also a mom a lot of the time. 

Commissioner Stuart:

and they sent their two kids to-- 

Senator Martinez: 

Yeah, it was a very tough decision. 

Commissioner Stuart:

Oh, man. 

Senator Martinez:

And you know, my longtime pastor, now a deceased, for Father John McCormick one time said, "It just speaks to the faith that they had in God and in this country to do that." And I think that's really absolutely well put. And so it was as a result of desperation, really. And so anyway, four years later, they were able to come. And again, it intersects with the Orlando story. By then, I graduated from Bishop Moore. I'm at OJC, Orlando Junior College, for those who might not remember the history. 

Commissioner Stuart:

It's now on the site of Lake Highland Prep. 

Senator Martinez:

Yeah. And so anyhow, it was a very fine school, by the way. It's a two-year school. But anyhow, my parents come. And you know, Robert, the thing that was so incredible about this community is that they came penniless, homeless. My father had a good veterinary practice. My family had had a substantial business. We were not the elite rich, but we lived well. And all of a sudden, we're here, penniless. My parents are jobless and everything else. I as a 19-year-old went to see Mr. T.G. Lee. If you drink T.G. Lee Milk, thank you. Anyway, and I went to see him. And I said, "My dad's a vet. You have 2,000 head of cattle out by the airport,” which today would be Lee Vista Center by 436. And eventually he ended up, in a few days' time, in some conversation, hiring my father to be an in-house vet for them. 

Commissioner Stuart:

Oh, that's cool. 

Senator Martinez:

So that began our life in Orlando. But he did it out of generosity and goodness of his heart to even let me in his office as a presumptuous kid. 

Commissioner Stuart:

So how old were you at the time? Nineteen?

Senator Martinez:

I was 19. I was OJC. And I knew my parents were finally going to be able to get out, and they were coming in the next few months. And I said, "Mr. Lee, he needs to have a job. I don't want him driving a taxi cab or washing dishes at Ronnie's to hit another historical note." And so anyway, but he was incredibly kind and open and said, "Let's give him a try." But in addition to that, we set up housekeeping at a modest home on Pine Street, East Pine Street near Herndon. And our doors were overwhelmed with knocks of generosity, people coming in with things, furniture, dishes, all kinds of things. And a washer-dryer one day just appeared? It was all used stuff, but it was great. We were so happy. And in a matter of a month, my dad had a job. We had a house full of manageable furniture and dishwasher and so forth, not only dishwasher, washer and dryer. And we were managed. We started our lives here. And so anyway, that to me speaks greatly about the kind of city community that Orlando was in those days. And I think in many ways, it's still today. 

Commissioner Stuart:

So you got here. So at 19, now you're at OJC. You end up going to FSU and stay up there for law school. 

Senator Martinez:

Right. And I met Kitty there, my wife. And she was from Mobile, Alabama. We met in Tallahassee and began our lives. We were married by the time I started law school. I graduated from law school and came back to practice in Orlando. And just very coincidentally, after applying for jobs everywhere, I settled here in Orlando because Kitty found it more acceptable than going all the way to Miami, which would have been a little foreign for her, coming from Mobile, Alabama. And so anyhow, Orlando seemed like a comfortable place. Of course, I had grown up here. I had gone to high school here. And it was my good fortune to join a small but delightful law firm by the name of Kitting, Billings, and Wooten. I'm sorry, Billings, Frederick, Wooten and Honeywell. Yeah. And Bill Frederick, who later became our mayor, was one of the senior fellows at the firm. And I learned so much from them. And it was a great way to start my professional life. 

Commissioner Stuart:

And by the way, Butch Wooten, of course, is a dear friend of mine. And those four or five names, including yours, have had an incredible influence on our community. And I think it's part generation, but it's also part this kind of, I'm saying, kind of a mutual feeling between professionals of we're going to care about our community. 

Senator Martinez:

Oh, absolutely. Yeah. And that was really-- I mean, there were several things. You need to be good at what you do, competent beyond the question. And you need to be involved in your community because that's really good for the firm. It was essentially the build a community and then, you know, there will come. But Bill Frederick started to have these lunches at our office that you may have gone to at some point. 

Commissioner Stuart:

Yes, I am there. 

Senator Martinez:

I'm sure your brother, George, did. And these lunches were just a way of inviting people from the community into our office. So I think it was Thursday lunches, you know? And we'd bring in a little catering. And it was always very simple, sandwiches, whatever. But there was always interesting people there. And I was getting to know people, and people were getting to know me. And it was just so interesting, you know? I mean, I remember Jim Greene was a regular of the Greenway today. 

Commissioner Stuart:

Of the Greenway? 

Senator Martinez:

Yeah, exactly. And, you know, so many other notables. Jerry Chicone and, oh gosh, really amazing local leaders that later did so many good things for our community. 

Commissioner Stuart:

These are all guys who are, I would say, half a generation ahead of me. Right. But became friends through family and through the work we did together. 

Senator Martinez:

Exactly. And our leaders said they were community builders, as though they were, you know? 

Commissioner Stuart:

Okay, so now you're practicing law. And so how did you get to become mayor of Orange County? 

Senator Martinez:

Well, it was quite a step, right? And so when Bill Frederick had run for mayor of Orlando, I got a little bit involved in his campaign. I had no sort of political thing. And so I helped him a good bit as much as I could to become elected. Worked a lot with your brother Jacob, who was very involved in the campaign. And Jacob and I became dear friends through that time and remained great friends ever since. And through that involvement, I remember that I told Frederick, I said, "Bill, there's a little hidden voting block out there. They're Hispanics. They're Cubans. They're Puerto Ricans." And in those days, it was a lot Cuban, more than Puerto Ricans, frankly. And so I said, "Bill, I want to start a little committee and get him involved and get him interested in your race." And so that began, you know? 

Commissioner Stuart:

That's cool. 

Senator Martinez:

It's interesting in those days, you know? And so that got me interested in this community in a different way as a leader, as a servant. Bill appointed me to be in the Orlando Housing Authority. And so I served in the Orlando Housing Authority for four or five years, trying to make that place better and to help the neediest of the needy who needed a place to live, a safe home and a place to call home. And so that was great work, very interesting. And I did a lot of things to modernize, to bring it, frankly, into a newer age, to try to break some barriers that have been there for a long time, racial and otherwise. And it was interesting work. At times challenging, but it was good work. And so then not long after that, Bill asked me to serve as part of the Orlando Utilities Commission. So I served as a commissioner on the commission, got to meet and work closely with Jerry Chicone and a lot of other good leaders. Mayor Hood became mayor during that transition time. And so I got to work with her in that role as well. And I think my profile was raised a bit during that time. And people began to ask me if I wouldn't consider running for Orange County Mayor. Principally among them, one of the earliest ones and most forceful was Charlie Gray, one of the real community builders of this community. And so he and some others were persuasive enough for me to say, "I'm at a point in life where why not? I'll give it a try." And honestly hard to explain to people today, but my sole intent was to do some good for this community. I thought so many people were so good to me and my family when we got here and were so needy. And I had to give something back. I had to pay back. It really was that kind of feeling that this place has been good to me. I've made a living as a good lawyer in this community. I've had the great privilege of serving in volunteer capacities. There's an opening for a county mayor. Somebody good ought to step in it and by damn I'm going to do it and I'm going to be good at it. 

Commissioner Stuart:

Now Linda Chapin was mayor. 

Senator Martinez:

Right before me. 

Commissioner Stuart:

Her term was- 

Senator Martinez:

Non standing. Right. It was term limited. Eight years and she was limited from reelection. And it was an open seat. And so I decided to jump in. There were I think five of us running and guess what? I prevailed.

Commissioner Stuart:

Well speaking on behalf of Orlando, I'm glad you prevailed. Okay, Senator, during your tenure, now you go from there to I guess the White House and then to Senate. 

Senator Martinez:

Right.

Commissioner Stuart:

So during your tenure there, you're there for four or five years. Tell me a little bit about it. 

Senator Martinez:

That's about it actually. But yeah. And you know it was a very busy time. We had to expand the Orange County Jail. I hate to start on a kind of a negative note but that had to be done. We also, growth was a phenomenal problem in Orlando in those days. It was just unbridled growth and it was really becoming a challenge to the quality of life. So I felt like we needed to do something particularly as it related to schools. And if I had to look back and say what were the couple of salient points of what your time as Mayor of Orange County were, I would say what became known as the Martinez Doctrine. I never labeled it that but the Orlando Sentinel did. And it was essentially to say we are not going to develop in this particular area of Orange County until we make allowances for what happens to the schools. That was an unusual role for county government to take. And it was challenging the courts. I felt confident. And Tom Wilkes, my very fine county attorney, told me I think you're in the right and we surely enough prevailed. And so in other words, if you're going to add 300 homes and those 300 homes are going to have a phenomenal impact on you name it, elementary school, name it, middle school, high school, we need to make an allowance and we need to work with the school board in order for there to be accommodations where these kids are going to go to school. How are we going to improve the school to be able to accept this additional population. So that became one of the Martinez Doctrine. It was very, very much spurned by the development community. I mean, this was a big disruptor. This was a big inconvenience. But at the end of the day, it was number one, the right thing to do. And number two, I had great approval by people who understood it as being the right thing to do for our community. 

Commissioner Stuart:

But now let's go back and look ahead 25 or 30 years. That is common practice. 

Senator Martinez:

Now it's a given.

Commissioner Stuart:

And the idea that when a developer comes in, we start with what are you doing for infrastructure, what are you doing for schools? 

Senator Martinez:

Right. And you know, there were impact fees for some of the infrastructure stuff, but there was nothing for school. I mean, that just was an afterthought. Well, it wasn't even an afterthought. It just happened. And so it was quite a dramatic change. A lot of people didn't like it. A lot of people were challenged by that or challenged me. But the people spoke. I mean, it was very popular. People supported it overwhelmingly. And so that became a really important cornerstone. 

Commissioner Stuart:

So how did you get from there to the White House? 

Senator Martinez:

Oh, gosh. Well, you know, so Jeb Bush is Governor.  And he and I became very friendly. And I worked very closely with him. I had been involved in a growth management commission because of some of this work on managing growth in Orange County. He had asked me to participate in this growth management commission for the State of Florida. And from there, his brother became a candidate for President. I became involved in his campaign and got to know him quite well. And if you may remember the election of 2000, it was a very historical election, very contested. 

Commissioner Stuart:

Especially in Florida. 

Senator Martinez:

Especially in Florida, especially in the I-4 corridor. So therefore, George W. Bush, as he was campaigning as Governor of Texas to be president, spent a lot of time in Orlando. And guess who was here to welcome him every time? Mel Martinez. And so we got to know each other. And so when he went to Washington, he invited me to be a part of his cabinet. Jeb Bush called me one day out of the county commission meeting. And fortunately, it was almost lunchtime. And I said, "We're going to take a lunch recess a little early." And I went and talked to Jeb. And then he told me, he said, "My brother's calling because he wants you to..." In any event, it was a very big surprise and a very exciting moment for me, for my family, I think for this whole community, really. 

Commissioner Stuart:

Very well deserved. And I can't think of a greater compliment to your level of service than to have the President of the United States call and say, "Would you come and serve in my cabinet?" 

Senator Martinez:

And you know not only that, but also a compliment to the people of this community that elected me as a Hispanic. This was not today Hispanic population of this community. I remember by the polling, it was around 8%. Register voters are probably more like four. And so the majority population of this community elected a Hispanic. But they're a little high. I mean, that just speaks highly of this community. 

Commissioner Stuart:

But you go to HUD, but you go to HUD with a little different level of experience than a typical government administrator. You go to HUD with the fact that the community had reached out to you as a young child. It has an incredible impact on you on the lifetime. You also go to HUD looking at what local governments can do for housing and for infrastructure. And so you step in... 

Senator Martinez:

But the Housing Authority, too. The Orlando Housing Authority so...

Commissioner Stuart:

That's right. That's right. And so you end up with kind of this grassroots understanding of what happens out in the country. And now all of a sudden you're at the highest level.

Senator Martinez:

I'm at the pinnacle. And so... And you know, the interesting thing is that I had to have people help me for my confirmation here in the Senate. I had three weeks to prepare, you know, from learning how to spell HUD, H-U-D, Housing and Urban Development, to really understanding the intricacies of the department, particularly as it related to the federal involvement, to what the federal government did in the funding and the budgeting and so forth. But anyway, I managed well enough to get a confirmation. By the way, 100 to nothing, which was unheard of. Well, today it would never, never happen. But it's a different day. And so people could vote across party lines and not be threatened with their lives. 

Commissioner Stuart:

Gosh, that's true. 

Senator Martinez:

Anyway, but yeah, so I became HUD secretary. And you know, it wasn't not only that rubber, but I am a member of the President's cabinet. And I just want to set the scene for you, okay? I'm now a member of the Cabinet. It's our first Cabinet Meeting. I am at around the big mahogany table in the conference room just adjacent to the Oval Office and the White House. And I'm looking around the room and then the President of the United States and Vice President Chaney. And then there's Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense Colin Powell, the Secretary of State John Ashgrove, the Attorney General. I look around and go, "What the hell am I doing here?" You know, I mean, seriously, I mean, I look around and I go, "Wow, there's a bust of Jefferson." I mean, I'm thinking, "Oh my God, you know, I mean, I'm this kid who came from Cuba and here's where I've arrived." And I mean, I'm being more candid that I normally would be in my awe and amazement, but it really was. And the whole time I kept silently praying, "Please don't call me to say anything." I don't think I could have found the sentence. I later found out that not only that, but the President would ask a member of the cabinet to open the meeting with a prayer. And in addition to that, he would also pre-ask, "I want you and you and you." You'd get a call. The President wants you to give an update on what's happening at HUD and this or that area, and you give an update to the cabinet on that. So it was kind of preordained. But it was still a fun moment to just sit there and think, "Wow, where have I arrived?" But it was an interesting job and working now understanding what the Orlando Housing Authority was, what housing authorities around the country were and needed to be. But beyond the Housing Authority part, there's so much more that HUD did and that we worked on in trying to modernize the housing, trying to improve the way communities develop. And then one thing I took very personal was the issue of homelessness. And that really began a passion of mine for affordability of housing and homelessness, both issues that still be double our country today. And we did a lot. I hired a really brilliant guy to work on the homelessness problem, and we did a lot. And so I'm very proud of the things we accomplished. This isn't about that. And so I'll only tell you that I'm proud of what we did. 

Commissioner Stuart:

Well, I'm proud of what you accomplished too. And there's a whole lot of other stuff we can talk about, but I'm going to get back to Orlando. 

Senator Martinez:

Yeah, for another day. Back to Orlando, exactly. 

Commissioner Stuart:

So in the Orlando area, I mean, you're in a unique position. As Mayor of Orlando, you have public safety underneath you, but that doesn't include the Sheriff's Department. So the Sheriff's Department runs independently, although I guess you guys help with the funding of it. 

Senator Martinez:

All of it, really. The county funds it. 

Commissioner Stuart:

Yeah. But I mean, it really is a separate elected official. 

Senator Martinez:

A separate elected official. County budget funds it. But yeah. 

Commissioner Stuart:

But underneath your direct responsibility is the fire department and the jail system, which is... 

Senator Martinez:

Correct.

Commissioner Stuart:

And then underneath that is this incredible growth of happening in the Convention Center and the growth of Disney and opening up two or three really new things. And then Universal starts to take off. 

Senator Martinez:

Right. 

Commissioner Stuart:

And it's kind of a crazy four or five years for what we're accomplishing. 

Senator Martinez:

Yeah, no, it really is because it was a pivotal moment. And the Convention Center, by the way, not only the construction of it, the development of it, the constant need to be bringing in new business and all of that, but the economic impact that it has on this overall community, whether it's Disney, Universal or just the hotel motel industry and restaurants. I mean, the Convention Center is a huge driver of this community's economy. And then the airport, too. I mean, the County Mayor sits on the board of the airport, sits on the Expressway Authority Board, and of course, the County Commission as well. So you really have a pulse of all that's going on in this community, but the jail was a huge problem. And so we had to really just enlarge it. I mean, it was just not enough room. And as the community grows, those things have to be done. 

Commissioner Stuart:

We often forget what's... And I see it from my role. My role is really public safety and, what I would call, land management. That's what the goal is. But that's the role of the city. You get above that to the county. It's a little bit broader spectrum. And of course, state is broader than federal. There's even more. So I mean, but your leadership has been wonderful. Are there any... I'm going to ask kind of a loaded question. Are there any kind of behind the curtains stories that you can share about your involvement at the Orange County mayor?

Senator Martinez:

Oh, man. Well, I mean, I do remember the issues of the jail were significant because we were having lots of bad things happen there. And Tom Herbert came to be my director of public safety. 

Commissioner Stuart:

Oh, yeah. Boy, he made such a difference. Former Orlando police chief. 

Senator Martinez:

Yeah. And that began a trend with a couple of more did that. The second thing that's really interesting is who you hire as county administrator. So important. Such a big deal. Such a job. And Ajid Lajandani, I moved up from Director of Public Works. 

Commissioner Stuart:

He was there forever and wonderful. 

Senator Martinez:

I brought him in in that role, but then he stayed through Crotty's eight years and then even beyond until he retired just a few years ago. But boy, he did a great job. He sort of reinvented the role. Jim Harris, you remember that name from the past? And Jim was County Administrator, City Administrator and then, county. A terrific gentleman, a great public servant. And Ajid, I think after Jim Harris was the next great one too. 

Commissioner Stuart:

Ajid was wonderful. 

Senator Martinez:

Yeah. And so I think those are some of the things that make a big difference. You know what you do about that. I'll tell you another little behind the curtain thing. I impaneled a group of friends to look at the real estate for the county. Jimmy Hewitt, remember that wonderful gentleman? Good dear friend. Jim Seneff. And gosh, that was the third. I can't remember now. Maybe Charlie Gray. I can't remember now precisely. But anyway, and I said, look at our stuff. What is going on here? And the sheriff at that time was like in five different places, none of which were adequate for what he was doing. He was bulging out of space. So the old Montgomery Ward, some West Colonial Drive was for sale. And so we bought an old Montgomery Ward, which I don't even know if anybody would remember what those are. But that was a Sears kind of a department store with a vehicle center, by the way, which was just custom made for the sheriff. So we bought that, we furnished it, moved the sheriff's there. Kevin Berry was the sheriff. And so that was another one of those little things that I invited people from the private sector to come partner with the government to say, how do we manage this? How best do we do this? With all due respect to public servants, that's not the kind of thinking that public servants employ. Because they're constrained by people come, people go, and the political leadership, and they're afraid to step on toes or whatever. But if you're in a panel of a group of smart business people who come and give you some help, and they're willing to do it, and they're competent, and they do it with total selflessness, you know, got to be the right people. 

Commissioner Stuart:

I had a great conversation with Mayor Hood. And she said that part of her success was reaching out into the business community and engaging them in a way to help look for solutions, as opposed to trying to think that everything is going to be handled only by City Hall. How do you reach out? 

Senator Martinez:

I felt that there was another great thing I did in this, in doing my time as Mayor, which was the after-school programs for middle schoolers. And that was done as a partnership between the County Government, obviously, you know, bringing the school, the public school system in, county government helping financially, and then the not-for-profit sector in the Boys and Girls Clubs and the YMCA, and the private sector, the public sector, and the not-for-profit, all coming together to do something good, you know? And it was a great thing. And I think those kinds of partnerships, when it comes to the homeless problem, that's how we should tackle it, you know? Public-private partnerships. 

Commissioner Stuart:

Now, tell me who your chief of staff was. 

Senator Martinez:

My chief of staff as county mayor was Dan Murphy, who was a political guy, went on back to Washington with me, and stayed in Washington as a big high-faluting lawyer, I mean, lobbyist in Washington today. But my initial chief of staff, my campaign transition chief, was Jacob Stuart. And Jacob had had a, of course, he was head of the Chamber at the time. He had done the transition chair for Governor Martinez when he became governor. So he knew something about it. And he had this bright, talented young woman that was his bride, Holly Stuart, and Holly became my press media person as Mayor. And so between Dan Murphy and Holly Stuart, they made a great team. And Jacob set the whole mechanics of my office underway so that I could have a successful start. 

Commissioner Stuart:

I'm going to eventually interview him. But Jacob worked for you, went and worked for Jeb...

Senator Martinez:

Went and worked for Frederick. 

Commissioner Stuart:

And worked for Frederick. He is known for the Chamber of Commerce, but I can't ever think when he actually was at the Chamber of Commerce. He was doing everything else. 

Senator Martinez:

Exactly, exactly. But, you know, Jacob was just a social community, a talented community servant. I mean, so he did. 

Commissioner Stuart:

Yeah. 

Senator Martinez:

…will serve this community in one way or another. 

Commissioner Stuart:

Okay, so wind up a little bit besides the bad guys. What are some colorful characters? When I go back and think of, you know, you worked with Jim Greene. I knew Jim Greene a little bit from a distance and admired him a great deal. And we admired him so much when we finished the Greeneway. We named it after him. Rick Fletcher's dad was- 

Senator Martinez:

A little bit from my time. Yeah. I served all you see with Rick. 

Commissioner Stuart:

Yeah. And so these are the kind of guys who I think, I hope 20 years from now, people will look back and go, "Hey, look at the impact that they had." I could have the same kind of impact. Who are some other characters? 

Senator Martinez:

Oh, man, well Jerry Chicone comes to mind immediately. He was just such a character, but he loved history. He loved the history of Orange County, the history of Orlando, the citrus connection to that history. He's done so much for Winter Garden, you know, for the museum there and all that has happened there. So much of it has got the Jerry Chicone imprint into it. But he was interesting and he was funny and he was- 

Commissioner Stuart:

I loved him. 

Senator Martinez:

He was temperamental and mercurial, I guess the word is. 

Commissioner Stuart:

He always knew where he felt. 

Senator Martinez:

He always knew what was going on with him. But there's so many others. My goodness, Charlie Gray, of course, he's a pillar. He is just a monument. He did so much for this community. He's such an exciting, interesting person. Always young. Charlie was always young. And I knew him when he was already a mature man, but he was really always young thinking and young and aggressive. And you know, politics didn't always intersect, but Linda Chapin and I have great respect for each other. I do believe and I admire her greatly. And she was the first woman to be coity mayor, Glenda Hood, when she came into the mayoral office of Orlando. These are good, interesting people that did great things for this community. But my goodness, there's so many community leaders, you know. Oh, Wally Sanderlin. Wally Sanderlin was a city commissioner, but it was much more than that. He was just a wise guy around town. Buell Duncan, another interesting fellow who, not in the political world, but he was also a very pivotal guy in this community. He always involved making a difference and doing things for the community. 

Commissioner Stuart:

I followed Wally's lead a little bit. Wally and I, for instance, of course, Wally's kids and I went to school together as well as Buell's kids. Wally taught, during his entire time, taught Sunday school over at College Park Baptist Church. And when I joined, Wally was – I knew him through my dad, but I also knew him as a Sunday school teacher. 

Senator Martinez:

Right, right, right. 

Commissioner Stuart:

And so I tried to emulate that, and I have continued that same thing. So now I'm going to finish up my fifth term in a few months. Wally served five terms.

Senator Martinez:

So Wally's your alter ego in a way, right?

Commissioner Stuart:

It should be a great alter ego to have. 

Senator Martinez:

Oh, he was just a great gentleman. And I think a gentleman in the fullest sense of the word, just a great gentleman. But yeah, I know there were interesting people, and interesting people like Tom Herbert, you know, that don't often get talked about these days. But Tom was such a colorful guy, and he had served – oh gosh, Randall James, speaking of people who were colorful, interesting, and servants, you know. He was a policeman here in Orlando who served the mayors from Langford on. But Herbert had some really funny stories about his early days serving Mayor Langford as a Randall James of Mayor Langford. And some of the stories about the crazy things that Mayor Langford did and so forth. 

Commissioner Stuart:

Yeah, Randall told me one time with Langford that it was at some kind of press conference in which the president was going to be there. And they had the presidential logo up on the podium. And Langford tried to get Randall James to go up and steal the – 

Senator Martinez:

The presidential seal. 

Commissioner Stuart:

The presidential seal. You know, it's just that little thing they travel with and they put – 

Senator Martinez:

I know exactly what it is, yes.

Commissioner Stuart:

What Randall said was that at one time he turned around and Carl Langford had had something under his coat and he just walked out and didn't ask any questions. And so apparently Carl Langford actually stole that. And I'm thinking, "What the hell? I wonder where it actually is." 

Senator Martinez:

Well, it is today, yeah. Well, I guarantee you, they keep a close eye on that one. If you did, you'd pull that off. That was an unusual one to do because those are not souvenirs. 

Commissioner Stuart:

Fair enough. Okay, let's talk – we've mentioned a lot of people, and I think probably it gets kind of to where you and I are in our lives. When you look at legacy and look at kind of what legacy means to you, what's the kind of advice that you give to the kind of next generation? I mean, you've got very active children. John, who is a good friend of my kids. 

Senator Martinez:

Very active son as well.

Commissioner Stuart:

And served in the county commission and then now has served – I guess he's in banking along. 

Senator Martinez:

Right.

Commissioner Stuart:

What a wonderful family they have. But when you look at legacy and you're talking to the next generation, what do you tell them about legacy? 

Senator Martinez:

Well, I think the biggest thing is to leave your community better than you found it. If you use that as a barometer, I mean, I want to leave my community better than it was when I was growing up. I want to also improve and maintain the quality of life. There's a reason people come to Florida. There's a reason we love living here and I've always loved this community because of the quality of life. We got to preserve it. We got to maintain it. We got to protect it. That means protecting our environment. It means, you know, being on the lookout for crime. We got to make sure that we don't let crime get out of control, that this is a safe community to live in. That we manage our traffic in a way that doesn't impinge quality of life. That we manage our transportation networks. All of that we do. But leave it better than you found it, you know. I remember when Bill Frederick and a number of other community leaders dedicated the airport. Do you remember that day? I mean, it was a beautiful time, 1980, I think it was. Orlando had a backwater of an airport. Look at that phenomenal airport we have today. Of course, there's grown sense, but still that dedication, that moment, that beginning. So think of those moments, those things that can happen in our community, which years from now will determine the legacy of what it is, what the community is.

Commissioner Stuart:

Let me tell you, thank you for spending time with me today. 

Senator Martinez:

My pleasure. 

Commissioner Stuart:

And if you want to learn more about Senator Mel Martinez, Secretary Mel Martinez, or Mayor Mel Martinez, either one of those, he's got a great book out called, “A Sense of Belonging from Castro's Cuba to the U.S. Senate, One Man's Pursuit of the American Dream.” It is a wonderful read. 

Senator Martinez:

And it talks a lot about Orlando. And the goodness of the people of Orlando, by the way, I'm proud to say. 

Commissioner Stuart:

And it's a wonderful read. And there's plenty of information on OrlandoMemory.org and some great stuff about Mel on the internet. So I appreciate that. And that background has been a wonderful background. So thank you. I appreciate it. I'm so honored to spend time with you and speak on behalf of our entire community. Let me express my thanks for you and the impact that you've had on our city and our community is a lasting impact. I appreciate that. In my case, you've been this kind of wonderful example of what I would call genuine leadership. And I knew that before you took on former leadership. So I knew the personality and I knew your dedication to our community. And that's an envy to many in our community. I want to tell you how much I appreciate it. 

Senator Martinez:

And let me just add one word of thanks to you as a community leader, as a public servant, as an elected official. You have never looked at your job as having to do with the next election, but having to do with the next generation. So as you conclude your service here in the next year or so, I just want to thank you for your service and all that you've done for our community. 

Commissioner Stuart:

You're very kind. 

Senator Martinez:

My City of Orlando. 

Commissioner Stuart:

You're very kind. 

Senator Martinez:

Thank you. 

Commissioner Stuart:

Thank you. I want to thank our listeners for taking time today and taking a few moments with us today. So that's it for now. Please look for discussions with Orlando History Makers on this podcast channel. I'm your host, Orlando City Commissioner Robert Stewart. And I appreciate you listening. Remember, let's value our past. Let's learn from it and make our future brighter than ever. Thank you.

Episode 6 - Judge Emerson Thompson

In this episode, Circuit Judge Emerson Thompson talks about life in Orlando with his wife, the late State Senator Geraldine Thompson, and their involvement in Orlando’s Black community. 

Listen to episode 6 now

Read the transcript:

Orlando City Commissioner Robert Stuart:

Hi, this is Orlando City Commissioner Robert Stuart. Very soon I'll be retiring from my position after 20 years of service to the citizens of Orlando, but before I retire, I want to leave a gift of history. I've had the wonderful opportunity to interact with so many people that have had such an impact on our city and how it's grown and how it's developed. Please join me on this audio journey as we meet these very interesting and influential people.

Thank you for joining us today once again with Orlando History Makers. I'm your host, Orlando City Council member Robert Stuart, asking for just a few minutes of your time as we learn about what makes our city and our community so exciting and vibrant. As I've shared before, it's my intent to bring some of the great stories of Orlando's history to life, to look at the impact of these events and the people, and to create an interest in our very exciting history.

Today once again we are joined by one of my favorite people in the whole world, and a person I've respected ever since I met him years and years ago, Judge Emerson Thompson. Judge, thank you for being with us today.

Judge Emerson Thompson:

Thank you very much, Commissioner.

Commissioner Stuart:

Judge Thompson has been active in the legal community for Central Florida for 150, oh sorry, I know it's long, for 50 years. Serving as a prosecutor for a short time, then becoming an Orange County judge in 1976. In 1980 he served the 9th Judicial District, later serving as Chief Judge in 1989. In 1993 he became a federal judge in the 5th District Court of Appeals. If I'm missing any of this you have to correct me. Serving as a Chief Judge for a few years after retiring in 2008, he's now at the luxury of being a senior judge. And an important side note, Judge Thompson was married to the late Senator Geraldine Thompson who passed away in February, and was a wonderful woman, a fierce defender of our community, a devoted mom and wife. I'm honored to include both of you as my friends. So Judge Thompson, thank you for joining us today. Now I'm a novice, I miss some of those things, so tell me a little bit about your judge and snapshot.

Judge Thompson:

Well it wasn't a federal position, and never do that. Never put federal on anything in the state. They don't like it, and I know who to be aware of that. So you have a pen?

Commissioner Stuart:

No, it's okay, It's audio.

Judge Thompson:

Okay, so it should be the 5th District Court of Appeal for the State of Florida.

Commissioner Stuart:

State of Florida, okay.

Judge Thompson:

5th District Court of Appeal for the State of Florida.

Commissioner Stuart:

I like you as a federal judge.

Judge Thompson:

I would have too, but it just didn't go that way.

Commissioner Stuart:

Well, it's good to have you here, and I am so honored that you would be here with me today. So Judge Thompson and I share, I guess we're called Rotary Brothers, Rotarians is the proper term. You are a member of the Orlando Downtown Club, and I'm a member of the College Park Club, but we get a chance to see each other regularly that way. So Judge, let's move into our story. I think the listeners would be interested in finding out how you came to Orlando.

Judge Thompson:

Well let me give just a little backstory first. I'm a resident from Jacksonville, Duval County, Florida, which I did not like. My wife was from Miami, Florida, actually she's from Perine, P-E-R-I-N-E, which we used to call Perrine, Florida. And I did not like Miami because of just too big, too congested, and I did not like big cities except for short visits. So we got married, and I had an opportunity to look for a job, and I did not want to go to Jacksonville, I did not want to go to Miami. And so I did an internship here in Orlando at the time for Bob Egan, and after I got back to school his chief of staff named Andy Hudak called me and asked me if I wanted to come to work. And I said, "Yes." I said, "When do I have to show up?" He said, "Monday." And this was on a Wednesday or Thursday. I said, "You mean of the next week?" He said, "No, like Monday after Thursday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday." I said, "Well, yada, yada." He said, "Do you want the job or not?" I said, "Fine." And so I came down here on the weekend, found a place to stay. It was difficult for me to find a place temporarily because I would answer and ad in the paper, but I'd get there and it was no longer available week to week or month to month. And so this friend of mine in the office who went to school and went to park, his name was Willie May. He was a white guy. He'd call after me and the space would be available.

Commissioner Stuart:

Oh my gosh.

Judge Thompson:

So anyway, at the time, the AngeBilt Hotel was what we used to call a transient hotel. Multiple people used it per night. So one of the guys suggested I go over there and I did. And so I got a room at the AngeBilt Hotel and I was there. I came back to work and I was there for about two weeks and one of the maids said, "How long are you going to be here?" I said, "Well, through December." Now this was September. And she said, "What are you doing?" And I told her, she said, "So you're going to be a lawyer?" I said, "Yes, ma'am, I am." She said, "Well, let me talk to the manager." And she did. She said, "We're going to move you to another floor." That's where the employees stay because, as I said, a transient hotel, people would come and go through the night and the doors would open and close. So that's where I stayed the first time I was in Orlando. We had one car in the family at the time. Now you're single at the time? No, I was married. We had one car in the family and Geraldine was working in Tallahassee, so I didn't have a car. So I was trying to find a bus route or something close to downtown so I could walk it. So I stayed at the Angebilt, which was right across from the courthouse. And once I got to that floor, after a while, I got to know all of the employees who worked on the floor because I'd see them with their kids during the day coming up and down in the elevator. And so that's my first introduction to Orlando.

Commissioner Stuart:

So Bob Egan brought you down here.

Judge Thompson:

He did.

Commissioner Stuart:

And so you're slightly older than I am, so, but you came in and it's like 76?

Judge Thompson:

I came here in 73 as a student. And so today I'm 76. So I got here in 73. I stayed here. Ron Powell was a county solicitor when I worked here. The positions changed. County solicitor was done away with state law and the state attorney took over the duties of the county solicitor. In the old days, the state attorney only did capital cases and the county solicitor did everything other than capital murders and first degree murder cases. So that's how I got here.

Commissioner Stuart:

And so Bob Egan ended up marrying a classmate of mine, Sarah.

Judge Thompson:

Yeah. Yeah. Interesting.

Commissioner Stuart:

And so I got to know him not only through the community but also through Sarah. So you came to Orlando.

Judge Thompson:

Right.

Commissioner Stuart:

Okay. So Geraldine is still in...

Judge Thompson:

She's in school finishing her master's degree at FSU.

Commissioner Stuart:

So she got a degree in Miami.

Judge Thompson:

She had an undergraduate degree in student education and communications. Well, she had a business degree and in emphasis on student education teacher and she had a degree in communications from the University of Miami. When we went to Tallahassee, we... She worked first at Florida A&M in the agriculture department, then the pharmacy department, and then she went to school to get a master's degree at FSU. And she was graduated... I came here in full-time in June of 73 and she came in June of 73 after she finished her master's degree.

Commissioner Stuart:

Oh. All right. So you came to Orlando.

Judge Thompson:

Right.

Commissioner Stuart:

But a short time later, you become a judge. Tell me how that occurred real quickly.

Judge Thompson:

That's another interesting story. I had no intention of becoming a judge. That was not on my aspirational list of things.

Commissioner Stuart:

Well, wait, but being a lawyer wasn't on your aspirational list either, was it?

Judge Thompson:

It was not. I had planned to be a doctor and I took a chemistry class called organic chemistry. And as my grandfather used to say, when he would talk about changing your mind, he said, "The Lord laid a blessing on my heart to change majors." I had a professor who said, "Tom, so how much time do you spend on this?" And I told him, he said, "Well, thank you. Things are going to get harder, not easier, so you might want to think of doing something else." And so I said, "Well, what can I do?" And so I have an undergraduate degree from the University of Florida in political science with an emphasis on African studies and I was going to become a professor and get a Ph.D. in the history of political science with an emphasis on the East Coast of Africa.

Commissioner Stuart:

So you went from doctor to professor to lawyer.

Judge Thompson:

In my senior year, I had a roommate who was one year older than me and we were ideally suited to be roommates. We were both first born. We both worked our way through high school and college. We were both in ROTC. He was in the Army. I was in Air Force. I was in school from 66 to 70 during the Vietnam War. So initially we had deferred selection because we were in college. They did away with those. So I joined ROTC. I was told by one of my uncles, "You're going to the military because there's just no way around it, so you got a choice. You can go as an officer or as an enlisted man." I was an enlisted man. I was in World War II. Let me suggest you go in as an officer. So I said fine by me. But I could not go to grad school if I had a commitment to the military. So I said, "Okay." But my roommate, Harry Lamb, from Fort Pierce, Florida, was going to law school. And he said, "You ought to think about law school," because I told him, "I don't think I'll be able to get a degree of master's and then a Ph.D." He talked about six years down the road. And he said, "I'm going to law school and the military will pay part of your way to law school," because he was in the Army ROTC. I said, "Really?" He said, "Yeah." And he also said there's this organization called the Herbert Lehman Foundation, and they run a program called CLEO. And it is to inspire minority students to go to law school. And if you get into the program, they'll send you to a school for a prep program for the summer before you go to law school. But you have to be accepted into a law school. So I wanted to go to Howard and couldn't afford it, so I was accepted at Florida and FSU. And I had been in Gainesville year-round from 67 to 70 because I had a job in an apartment. And I was a little bit tired of Gainesville. As I used to tell people euphemistically, the social opportunities were not good. So I decided to go to school and tell my FSU.

Commissioner Stuart:

Now, hold on. I'm also a graduate of the University of Florida, as four or five of the six kids that we have. You're the same age as my brother, Jacob. So today is Jacob's birthday, so I know exactly how old you guys are now. And I graduated University of Florida in 1975, so I came at the tail end and then went to the—we had the draft, and I was an ROTC until my number came up so high I dropped out. And there's another story about that with my argument with my father. But Jacob and George both went at the same time, and they went as second lieutenants in the Army. And so I'm real familiar with having to go through that. But you went as JAG, right?

Judge Thompson:

Well, no. What happened was that I was commissioned. I was a distinguished military graduate. I went to this program. I got into FSU, and they would pay for me to go to law school—not pay for it, but give me a stipend to go to law school. The only caveat was I owed them four years after I got out, which was fine. I was in the Air Force. And as I said, it was imminent that you were going to go one way or another. So when I got out of law school, I moved here. Geraldine and I moved—well, she came after I did. And Henry Kissinger and the President ended the war in Vietnam, Henry Kissinger, and as a result, they rifted out a bunch of officers. Rift means reduction in forces. So they said, "We don't need you. We're not sending anybody to JAG school. We're not sending anybody to any other kinds of school like flight school because we're reducing everything, and so there are fewer people who will be going through these schools. We don't need as many officers." And I said, "Okay, well, I wanted to stay in because I thought it would be a good place to do a good experience, yada, yada, yada." And they said, "No, but you can be in the reserves and hear the obligations." And I said, "Well, I want to start a family." And at that time, I was kind of angry that I couldn't go on active duty because I had guys one year ahead of me, like John Marks, who later became the mayor of Tallahassee, and their experience was absolutely wonderful. And I said, "Well, I got angry." And I said, "No, I'm done." And I think about that sometime and I regret it, but that's how my military career ended. I was commissioned. I was waiting to go on active duty, and I got this note. Sorry, but no thank you.

Commissioner Stuart:

Jake and George both went into – the same thing happened to them, and they both – or Jacob was in JAG and then got moved over to the cavalry, and George was in cavalry. And they immediately said, "We're not sending fighting troops over there. You're out, so here's your deal. You got to just go into reserve." So they both end up in reserve and serve for, I think, four years with the men or something like that. And I can remember being in college and them being in reserve. George was very faithful. Jacob not quite so faithful. But it was really neat to kind of – all of us that grew up in that era kind of have a connection. ROTC was not for me. There's another whole story I want to share with you here, but it just wasn't for me. But I got a chance to experience some of that. Charlie was in for a little longer than I was, so. All right. So you come to Orlando. Go back to your story. How did you become a judge?

Judge Thompson:

By accident. There was a lawyer here by the name of Norris Woolford. When I got to Orlando, there were three black lawyers, Paul C. Perkins, Norris Woolford, and James Collier. James Collier's father was a pastor, and he headed Shiloh Baptist Church, one of the biggest black churches in town. Cari and Wolfhawk were partners, and their office was off of Paramore Street in a residential home that had been reconverted, got to know Norris real well. His wife took a liking to me, and when I didn't go to Tallahassee on the weekend to see Geraldine, he would invite me over for dinner, and I'd eat there. His wife enjoyed having me there. I know that because he said I'd like to see you come because she cooks on Sunday. Long story short, we talked about it, and he said, "Well, what are your plans?" I told him, and he said, "Have you thought about staying here and going back to Jacksonville?" I said, "I never thought about going back to Jacksonville”. So anyway, our plan was I'd work here for a while, get involved in activities, get to know people, and then I'd go to work with him. There was a woman who was Secretary of the Orange County Bar Association, and at that time the office was on Washington Street right across from what was then the back door of the courthouse where the judges parked. And I got to know her. I was in the Speaker's Bureau and a couple of other committees with the Orange County Bar to get to know people and get to know the community. And one day she turned her ring around and tapped on the window. She would sit in a big window. I said, "Come here." I said, "Me?" She said, "Come here." And I went in, she gave me some papers, and she said, "I want you to fill these out." I said, "What are they?" She said, "I want you to apply to be a county judge." I said, "Where did that come from?" I said, "I thought it was funny or amusing." And she said, "No, I want you to apply. I've talked to people yada, yada, yada, and I think you'd be a good county judge." I took him and said, "Okay, I'll fill it out." Had no intention of doing it because I knew I would not be appointed. I was not from here. I'd been a member of the bar for three years. At that time, now you have to be a member of the bar ten years. So I didn't fill it out. The day the applications were due, she saw me and she told me to come inside. She said, "Do you have the papers?" I said, "Well, I'm getting it." She said, "You know, if you weren't going to do it, but you gave me your word, you would." So she shamed me in the filling them out. And at the time, the main post office was downtown. Now it's just a satellite. So I got there at about 5: 05 and the courthouse that we used was the upstairs of the post office. They had a sliding door panel after 5 and they pulled down the window at 5. I got there a little late. And they were locked down. And I needed a stamp to show I turned it in on time. So I knocked on the panel and knocked and knocked. And the guy lifted it and he said, "We're closed." I said, "Look," I explained. And he said, "I'm sorry. If I did it for you, then I have to do it for everybody." I said, "Close the window." And as I was walking away, he pulled out, he says, "Aren't you the guy who does the trials upstairs?" It was in traffic court. I said, "Yeah." He said, "Come on." And he took them and he stamped them. And I said, "Thank you very much. Is there any?" He said, "No, you're a good guy." And I got an interview and on that panel was Father Nelson Pender, Linda Chapin. I forgot his name but he was a contractor from Winter Park and some other people I don't remember. And I met Linder's husband. He and I drove up to Florida to give speeches and talk to students. I knew Nelson Pender indirectly because I had friends who were members of his church, one of them named Pete Boyd. Nelson knew who I was but I didn't really know him. I had met him at church but nothing anyway. And I--

Commissioner Stuart:

And Nelson knew who everybody was.

Judge Thompson:

I'll tell you a little story about that later on. I will. But a friend of mine who was--I met him in the third grade in Jacksonville, Florida. He went in the Air Force during Vietnam. He came out. He went to Fam U. And he was there in school when I was there. I was a student at FSU. And we--the joke was we'd feed him and his girlfriend who he eventually married and he became the lawyer working for the governor at the time, Reuben Askew. So I'm told that he put in a good word for me and the governor had people here and they put in a good word. So I was appointed which surprised me. It really did. And that's how it became a joke.

Commissioner Stuart:

That's incredible. What's nice about doing these podcasts is I know all these people.

Judge Thompson:

Sure.

Commissioner Stuart:

And either I know them by reputation or they knew me. Of course Nelson Pinder and my family are very, very close. I go on out. Okay, so over your tenure, you were the first African-American judge here.

Judge Thompson:

Right.

Commissioner Stuart:

How many were in the state when you--?

Judge Thompson:

I don't know.

Commissioner Stuart:

Couldn't be a whole lot.

Judge Thompson:

There weren't. But I say this and I'll say it until the day I die. Reuben Askew made the black judiciary in Florida. Now think about this. This was 1973. Reuben Askew became governor. He had two terms. He did a number of things, corporate tax, government of sunshine, some other things. And nobody was requesting black judges, not the NAACP, not the Urban League, not the NC--. Nobody was requesting black judges. He appointed a large number of guys and that became the seedbed for the black judiciary. And I would often see him and ask him, and I always would ask him, "Why did you appoint us?" And he said, "Because I thought you'd do a good job." And when he was here at Foley and Lardner, I believe it was, 101 North Orange, the Copper Whopper, I saw him at a bookstore at that corner and I asked him if he was proud of the work that I did. And he remembered me and he talked about the things I'd done. I was a circuit judge by then and may have been a chief judge. And we talked for about an hour about how things had changed in Florida, how he was proud of the things he did and how the people he appointed, he was very happy with them and they always did good work and didn't get in trouble, yada, yada, yada. There was a guy standing next to us after he left. He said, "Who was that?" I said, "That was Reuben Askew." I said, "That was Governor Reuben Askew." He said, "What state was he a governor?" I said, "Well, how long have you lived in Florida?" "I've lived here a long time." I said, "How long?" He said, "Fifteen years." I said, "Well, I've lived here a long time." I said, "Fifteen years?" I said, "Well, he was governor of the state of Florida." That always made me proud. That's how I became a judge and that's how I had stayed and that's how I got to be promoted.

Commissioner Stuart:

Well, you know, I had an opportunity to interview Mayor Frederick and Charlie Gray and in midst of all of those conversations. Reuben Askew is intertwined in all of those stories as well. And so, decisions that you make at a certain level, you really don't know the impact for 20, 30, 40, 50 years. And we go back and look at some of the stuff that Reuben Askew did and now we go, "That's incredible."

Judge Thompson:

Especially during that time.

Commissioner Stuart:

Yeah. Yeah.

Judge Thompson:

Reuben Askew, Bob Graham, and Lawton Childs, not just judges, but the things they did to diversify various institutions in the state of Florida. And the interesting thing is that the people he or they appointed did well and then went on to do other things well. So that's one of those things.

Commissioner Stuart:

Now, I get a chance to see you as a friend and see you kind of from the outside. You are one of those really, in my mind, one of those really neat, quiet leaders. But over your tenure, you've been involved in not only many cases, but many issues. Share a couple of those issues that come to mind when you think about the impact on our community and the things that are involved.

Judge Thompson:

First, I have to educate people about judges. Judges cannot be involved in partisan politics. And it's very important.

Commissioner Stuart:

They won't give me any money whenever I ask.

Judge Thompson:

They won't give you money. They want to change your fundraisers. They won't endorse you. They won't sign petitions. And they won't be in ads. And a lot of people don't understand that. And if they are not and can't be vocal like a county commissioner or a city commissioner, they just can't. And in fact, the rules that govern our behavior are very strict because you can get in trouble if you're a judge for things you do off the bench that would not necessarily be a problem for county or city elected officials. It just wouldn't. But the rules are stricter now. The problem in Florida now is some lawyers who become judges think they're still lawyers and they do things. And I always read what I call the JQC newsletters about judges who got in trouble attending party politics, lobbying. And it's a problem for the judiciary because you're supposed to be neutral. So that's why people say, "Why aren't you like Geraldine?" I said, "She's not a judge." And if she was, she'd be like me. So I was always cautious about not getting into what I would call ethical problems because it creates a problem for the judiciary that, "Well, you're supposed to be neutral yet. Here you are going to this political event. Here you are advertising for this guy in a political ad or a quasi-political ad." So you have to be very cautious about that. Also I knew that if something came up, the discipline for me at the time would be much more harsh than for a colleague of mine who might do the same things. And that was just a fact of life and it's something you had to deal with. But I was always involved in what I call community activities. They didn't gain a lot of notoriety, but they were something that I enjoyed and could do. I served on boards at my church, Mount Pleasant Missionary Baptist Church. I was active with the blood bank. There was a Rotary named Ed Carr. I gave my first blood donation here in 1974. My son was, my wife was expecting my son. And if you gave blood at that time, if your wife needed blood, you wouldn't have to pay for it. So I gave blood at Kewell Avenue or Kewell Street.

Commissioner Stuart:

Yeah, I remember that.

Judge Thompson:

It was an old house. And I met Ed a little bit later and then I met him at the Rotary and he encouraged me to start giving blood. And I did. And I tried to, at my church, establish a designated blood donation for our church, a blood bank for the church, so if the church member needed it. And it worked for a while, but you have to have people willing to volunteer. And as our church got older, the volunteers decreased.

Commissioner Stuart:

How many gallons are you?

Judge Thompson:

58.

Commissioner Stuart:

Oh gosh. That is wonderful. In the last five or six years, I have tried to be faithful about it. And so I'm up to about five or six gallons now.

Judge Thompson:

The blood bank, I served on its board and they had two slogans that I, the only two things I've ever put on my car is a slogan. One is give the real you, give blood. And the other one is blood is life, pass it on. So my blood type is not rare, but it's one of the more prominent ones. So you think about it, during holidays, especially summer holidays, more people are injured or hurt with the most common blood types. And so they always are in need of the most unusual and the most common. And so, and some are what they call universal donors. So those are always the ones they want to key on. So I still give blood to this day.

Commissioner Stuart:

Oh, that is great. That is great. Okay. Where were we? We were talking about-

Judge Thompson:

How I got appointed?

Commissioner Stuart:

Issues you're involved in. No, issues you were involved in.

Judge Thompson:

Oh, and then I was, I've always been active with my kids and their school things and-

Commissioner Stuart:

Rotary of course.

Judge Thompson:

Rotary. Then I was a member of the Adult Literacy League for several years and I had two students that I had for years to teach them to read. And one was a little, not a little boy, but a young man. And the other was an older gentleman who was a good family member, good provider. He owned a home. He sent his kids to college, but he was functionally illiterate because when he was young, he had to work. He came from a large family. They came from an agricultural background. The girls went to school and the boys worked. They got to sixth grade or seventh grade, then they had to go work in the fields. And he was always embarrassed and he had work arounds, but he could not read. Members of his family did not know that daddy could not read. He had a good memory. And so I worked with him to teach him to read. He never was a great reader, but he did learn to read and we worked with his checkbook so he could learn to balance his checkbook. I said, "Well, how would you do it before?" He said, "Oh, I'd go to the bank." And I said, "I forgot my glasses." He had work arounds and he'd learned or he had a friend who knew his secret and would help him with things, but his family members, mostly the girls and his wife, would read documents to him that he needed to sign. And they knew, but the other kids did not know. But he was very much ashamed of that.

Commissioner Stuart:

So the judicial system is just a little mysterious. For judges and lawyers, you understand the impact and what goes on, but for those of us who are kind of a little bit on the outside, it's a little bit, we kind of watch in amazement. You've been involved in some high profile cases and looking at some of the stuff that you did with a line of memory. I love the stories about being in traffic court. I can't remember who the judge was, but I remember years ago, a guy said he was a judge, a traffic judge, and he said people would call him up when they get a traffic ticket and say, "Here, would you take care of my ticket?" And he would say, "Yes, absolutely." He'd take the ticket. The fee was $2. He'd pay the $2 and turn it back in. And people thought, "Well, can't you just kind of..." And the answer is I could, but I'm not going to. And your friendship's worth more than $2 to me, so I'll just pay the $2 at the time.

Judge Thompson:

It's little things like that that people don't understand. But I told my kids, I said, "Look, I'll get your car, your responsibility, the brakes, the gas, the oil, et cetera, and the tickets. I'm not driving your car in my car, so I pay my tickets. You pay yours." And I found out later my kids did get tickets, but they didn't tell me about it. They paid them. Yeah, but I found out when my insurance came up to be renewed. And they said, "I took care of it." I said, "Don't you think you should have told me?" I didn't see the need, so I said, "Okay, fine."

Commissioner Stuart:

Well, a couple of quick cases you're involved in. The traffic court, I think, is great. And so, by the way, let me take a... A bunch of this stuff is on orlandomemory.org.

Judge Thompson:

Sure.

Commissioner Stuart:

If you want to know a lot of the details, there are some great stories there, and I appreciate that. I want to encourage people to go to there and to put in your name and to take a few minutes and read and listen to your...

Judge Thompson:

I may not remember all of them, but I'll tell you the one that I do remember, a couple of them. I've had more people be upset with me about traffic cases than anything else. There was a guy that I knew who had retired from the Army as a sergeant major. He T-boned a guy on Robinson Street, and there used to be an orange packing plant right where the Department of Children and Families is now and FAMU law school. And guys were sitting on the porch, and they saw him just run the stop sign and T-bone a guy. I mean, there was no doubt about it. It was a clear day, and he T-boned them. They called the cops. The cops came up. He T-boned them. He wanted me to give him a special dispensation, so I withheld the adjudication, sent him to the driving school, so he didn't have points. But he never talked to me again, and he talked about me at the barbershop, and he called me everything but a stray dog with a mange. And I mean... Wait, wait, say that again. But a stray dog what? He called me everything but a stray dog with a mange, and that's a whole southern expression, but I couldn't understand. He was also a pastor or a minister, but he was upset that I didn't make it go away. And so people get upset. I also shared space with Jake Stone, who was a well-known lawyer, his father been chief of police. Jake was the quintessential southern gentleman. I would sit in the back of the courtroom. Jake would sentence a guy to the maximum penalty for a traffic charge, and they would walk him out to service time, and he would always say, "Thank you, Judge Stone. I appreciate you," and walk out. I'd give a guy probation with old adjudication, minimum fine, and as they walked out, you could hear him. They called me everything but a child of God. And my wife said, "Well, you look mean." I said, "Well, how am I supposed to..." She said, "You could smile more." And I said, "Well, my face is my face." But people really took that. I learned two things. There are no red lights in Florida. They're all yellow, and I was not doing and going above the speed limit.

Commissioner Stuart:

Of course, we never are. No. We never are. All right, I'm going to just change because I want to be cognizant of our time, and I want people to get a chance. So let me just talk a little bit about your wife.

Commissioner Stuart:

Yes, sure. I love Geraldine. She was one of my favorite people in the whole world. I had the honor of attending the memorial service, and I saw the hundreds of leaders that were there and the thousands of people. And I know that in some way, it's gratifying to see people honor her life and honor her legacy. But she was involved in so many things in our community, but you're married almost 50 years?

Judge Thompson:

54 years, about six months.

Commissioner Stuart:

Okay. And so you look back over your 54 years, put together that with kind of the development of the community. Because you guys have been in the heart of this community for 54 years.

Judge Thompson:

And as I said, she was more active than I was, but...

Commissioner Stuart:

You were on her arm every time I turned around.

Judge Thompson:

Yeah. As a friend of mine said, "You're nothing but arm candy. Everybody come to see Geraldine. They don't know you." I said, "Fine." That was her plus one. That was the joke in the house. But most people don't realize that when Geraldine came here, she was not an outgoing person. She was quiet. She was very bright, very smart. She graduated with honors from the University of Miami. And she graduated with her masters at FSU. She got As and Bs. She was just very bright, but she was quiet. And so she became a teacher here first at Edgewater under Dr. Norman Kent. And then she went to Conroy Elementary. And then she went to a middle school.

Commissioner Stuart:

She was at Edgewater just after I left.

Judge Thompson:

I didn't know, but she was there in the business department when we got to town.

Commissioner Stuart:

Like 73, 74.

Judge Thompson:

Right.

Commissioner Stuart:

So I graduated 71, because I was the first or second class of Dr. Kent.

Judge Thompson:

So we met several people there that became friends with us for life. And then she went to Valencia Community College in HR. And then she got into, at that time, diversity. And she became very good at it. Geraldine has always been an excellent speaker. And I tell people she was an orator. I'm a speaker. An orator can get people to move to do something based on what she says. And you remember what an orator says. You don't remember what a speaker says. You know, it was okay, but you don't really remember. And they remembered what she said. And a lot of what inspired her community work was her background. She had, the first members of her family to go to college, first to graduate high school. And she went to Miami Dade Community College, South Campus. She became a big fan of the community college because a lot of kids could not go to a four-year institution. So her passion for education and the community college system dictated the things she became interested in. So while at Valencia, she started a program to have students, minority students, boys and girls, different backgrounds, take a college tour of the different colleges so they could see where they might want to go to school. And during the prep stage, she had people come in and speak to them about time management, about applying for financial aid, all the things that most kids don't think about unless they come from a parent or a parent household where there are two parents who have a college degree and they know you got a grandeur.

Commissioner Stuart:

And things today that are common. When that was happening back then, it was not common. Today, because of her leadership, really, we look at our students as much more holistic.

Judge Thompson:

Right.

Commissioner Stuart:

Back then, it wasn't. You take this course and you figure out where you're going to go with the rest of your life.

Judge Thompson:

Well, she was that stopgap. And a lot of the kids that she sent on those trips or took on those trips became college graduates. And remember, she taught at schools. She influenced people there. She was a no-nonsense teacher. She remembered everybody. She had a--I won't say it was a photographic memory, but she remembered people and remembered things about people. And when she first started to run for office, you don't know how many people you know, but people remember you. And they remembered her. And as a result, she had a base that she was in a sorority, AKA… Alpha Kappa Alpha. She was in the Lynx. She was in a church. So she had a base of people who knew her and the work that she did on projects that weren't meant to be a political stepping stone just to help people at the time. And so she helped kids in school, helped them with discipline problems, counseled their parents about how to help your child. The program she had, which was funded by the state of Florida and copied through community colleges, and it encouraged kids to go to college. And a lot of kids' lives were changed, especially girls who became young ladies, by her role model and the fact that she could do things. And for many kids, our family was the first. I remember we had, during the summer, I would always have my kids over and their friends at the house, and we'd barbecue, and we had a pool, and they'd swim. And one of the kids came up to us, and he said, "You guys are like the Cosby family." But you have no idea with kids who come from single-parent families or who live in a housing project, and they see your house, your family, and they knew us as husband and wife, which was--and we had been married a fairly long time, 20 years, 18, 20, 25 years, and it was an aberration to them. But she would always tell them, "Well, if you work hard, you can do the same thing." And so I meet people who were at the house as children. I don't remember them at all, and they'll tell me about, "You did this, you did that. Ms. Thompson did this, Ms. Thompson did that." And we had to pray before we eat, and it was just things that you just take for granted that you don't realize there are kids who just have never seen or done that. And it's not their fault. It's just when you say a kid doesn't know how to behave, they were never taught how to behave, and they were never role-modeled how to behave.

Commissioner Stuart:

Well, I'll tell you, the memorial service, there's a couple of things that struck me. The one that struck me is that she had such a broad influence on the entire community.

Judge Thompson:

Bingo.

Commissioner Stuart:

And you see that often, but you don't see that so much with the people who, in this breadth, who were so individually articulate. And it is the idea that people knew Geraldine this way and found out that she was this way too, and she was this way too. And you began to see that our personalities are very multifaceted, but deep down inside, there was this one core of caring for one another. You just saw them in different roles.

Judge Thompson:

Right.

Commissioner Stuart:

And I thought that was so wonderful to see that with the kids and the people who spoke and the leadership. I mean, she walked with giants in our state. At the same time, she's willing to hold somebody's hand. I mean, it was just really sweet.

Judge Thompson:

I met so many people afterwards, and they were telling me the things she did for them that she never mentioned. And I don't think she'd remember. It was just part of her DNA to help people, and she did. And she never it was not like advertising it. It's just you do it because of her background. And that's why she has such a strong commitment to education, opportunities with education, scholarships for kids within education. Because where you were born is no indication of where you will end up. And there are a lot of smart kids who were born broke, impoverished, that had horrible lives, but they were still smart kids. And given the right opportunity, they can be smart adults and productive adults.

Commissioner Stuart:

Well, as a close up, let me just ask this question. And we're going to jump to the legacy. I think it's important for those who are listening to say that, you know, there's a legacy that we all want to leave. And so I want to ask you, when you think of legacy and candidly, between you and Geraldine, you're living legacies to me. When you think of legacies, and you reflect on that, what are some words that you want to share kind of with the next generation?

Judge Thompson:

Well, we taught our kids and we taught our friends, and we were taught. One, where you start out is no indication of where you'll end up. If you work hard, apply yourself. Do the things that I'm sure your parents told you. Stay out of trouble. Treat people kindly. Always try to give some kind of service to people, either through church or community or club, or just helping a neighbor who needs help with her groceries or she can't see, read the mail, and things like that. And it's just you teach values to people that are what I call core, lifelong, immutable values that don't change. My grandfather taught me, "You never fight outside your weight class." I said, "What does that mean?" I'm not going to box. He says, "No, you don't pick on people who are weaker than you. You don't bully people. You don't argue with people who can't argue back. You don't intimidate people who can't fight back. Always fight within your weight class. Treat people weaker than you, better than other people have treated you. Remember that, because some people picked on you and some people took advantage of you. So don't you be the bully. Don't you be the guy who's going to reciprocate on someone who can't fight back because somebody did it to you.

Commissioner Stuart:

Yeah.

Judge Thompson:

And just be a good community servant. And it doesn't mean that you have to be elected to office. It's just be a good servant, a good person. Treat people well as best you can, and life will be better for you. And it's just something we believed in. It worked for us. And that was the whole thing. It worked for us. It worked for our kids. It worked for our friends. It worked for our family members.

Commissioner Stuart:

Well, we've grown up essentially in the same time period. And I had two parents that were very deep in their faith. And like yours, they taught your job is to give back. And so when you begin to look at the organizations you are involved in, the organizations I'm involved in, the one that stands out the most is kind of Rotary. And Rotary's whole motto is service above self. I mean, your job is to go serve. That's what we should do with one another. And I tell you that watching you and watching you and Geraldine and seeing the feelings around you, you gain a great deal more influence by serving others. And candidly, if you're doing the right heart, the community changes. And you've been part of that. And I want to tell you how much that means to me personally. So I get a chance to say a few nice things about you. So lighten up a little bit.

Judge Thompson:

It's interesting in that I knew a large number of your family members. I never knew your dad. I knew your mom, your brothers, obviously. And I met your sister a couple of times. So your family has always been very prominent in the things in the community. And I'm closest politically to George because I was around the time he was running for offices and went to Tallahassee and so on. So yes.

Commissioner Stuart:

Well, if you want to know more about Judge Emerson Thompson and his life and growing up and serving in our community, you can read more about it by going to orlandomemory.org and just put in his name. There's a great interview with him. It's about an hour long. Talk about the specifics and the cases and the people that influenced him. We've just touched on that here for just a moment. And for more information about Senator Geraldine Thompson, there are tons of articles that are available for her. There's a good short snapshot on Wikipedia. And then there's articles about her impact on our community. And it was wonderful to kind of renew and look at that again. Judge Thompson, thank you so much.

Judge Thompson:

Thank you.

Commissioner Stuart:

I am so honored to have spent this time with you. And speaking on behalf of our entire community, let me express my gratitude for your leadership. Our entire community would not be what it is today without you. You have led with quiet dignity, and you've made a double mark on my life as well as the lives of our entire city. So I want to say thank you.

Judge Thompson:

Thank you.

Commissioner Stuart:

I also want to thank our listeners for taking a few moments with us today. That's it for now. Please look for more discussions on Orlando history makers on this podcast channel. I'm your host, Orlando City Commissioner Robert Stuart, and I appreciate you listening. And remember, let's value our past, let's learn from it, and make our future brighter than ever. Thank you for joining us.

Episode 7

This episode will be released on December 3, 2025.

Episode 8

This episode will be released on December 10, 2025.

Episode 9

This episode will be released on December 17, 2025.